79. Hotel Award Travel Fundamentals with Ben Komenkul

Welcome to Point Me to First Class, the only show for employed professionals, entrepreneurs, and business owners who are looking to optimize their higher-than-average expenses to travel the world. I'm your host, Devon Gimbel, and I believe that your expenses are your greatest untapped asset if you know how to leverage them. Ready to dive into the world of credit card points and miles so you can travel more, travel better, and travel often? Let's get started.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the podcast. Today, I am joined by Ben Komenkul, who is a seasoned expert in the world of points and miles with over a decade of experience mastering the art of travel rewards. For the past 15 years, Ben has also been a dedicated business travel, navigating the globe and refining his strategies for maximizing loyalty programs. His journey into points and miles began as he realized the immense value these programs could offer not just for frequent flyers, but for anyone looking to enhance their travel experiences. 

On today's episode, we are covering some fundamentals of hotel award travel, including how using points for hotel stays differs from using points to book flights, what a hotel point is worth, and how that should factor into your travel strategy as well as the key to getting great treatment from hotels, even if you don't hold status. We cover a little bit of everything for those ready to enter the world of hotel award stays. Please enjoy this conversation. 

Devon: Welcome to the podcast, Ben. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Ben: I am very excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me, Devon. 

Devon: Absolutely. Well, I couldn't wait to invite you to the podcast because you are such an enormous wealth of knowledge about so many things in the points and miles world. We're going to get into one of those topics today. But before we do that, can you start us off by introducing yourself, telling us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how did you get started in the world of credit card points and award travel? 

Ben: Well, my name is Ben with Ben's Big Deals. I have been now teaching folks about points and miles, I would say since 2016. I ran a small Facebook group, and we grew from 1,000 people to like 40,000 points and miles fanatics. 

But like a lot of people, I was someone who just wanted to travel and take my family on a vacation twice a year. I didn't want to come home with a bunch of bills and debt and carry that into my next vacation. I was a business traveler. I found a job where I could be able to travel. 

But I have to say, I'm one of those people, I did it wrong for five years, meaning that I earned the miles of the airline I flew. I didn't have any loyalty to one. I flew all over the place. I didn't choose the right hotel program at all because I was looking for the least or most cost effective hotel room. On the outside, it looks like you're doing everything right. 

But what was happening was I would get on planes, and I would see people sitting in first class, and I would make fun of these people like who the heck is buying first class tickets to go from Los Angeles to Phoenix? These are like 45 minute flights. Little did I know was that the majority of them were getting upgraded for free. 

When it came to the hotel side of it, I didn't understand how people with a small set budget, how they can get huge vacations. When I looked at that after five years later, it took me about five years into the world of business travel that I realized that I was missing out on the entire game. 

About 2014, I decided to really dive in deep. Then I was earning points and miles. What I did with those points and miles was that I used it to fly out to see  everyone who wrote every blog. Do you remember Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich, and he's like, “I'm going to go and meet all the millionaires and learn from them.” That's what I did with points and miles. 

So like everybody who ever wrote an article, I would fly out to Chicago, New York. Whenever I had business travel, I would try to find time to take them coffee, and I would make friends with all of them. I came back, and I said, you know what? This is going to help my family. Instead of those two vacations, I ended up turning to eight vacations a year. I probably save anywhere around 80 to $90,000 a year using points and miles now to travel. So it's been a fantastic journey. I'm here to share some of those things with your folks today. So I'm so excited. 

Devon: Yeah, well, thank you so much for that. I think it's absolutely incredible to hear how everybody kind of finds their way into this hobby and then what they decide to turn it into. I think you are such an incredible example of someone who took something initially, like many of us do just how can we use this to improve our lives a little bit, but you became such an expert in it that you now teach hundreds and thousands of people how to do the same things. 

One of your areas of expertise that I really am excited for you to share with the audience today is that I don't know anyone who knows more about leveraging credit cards, leveraging points in order to have amazing hotel stays. We're not just talking about sort of that baseline how can you earn some points and then book a hotel with that stay the ins and outs of really leveraging credit cards and points for hotels. We are going to talk all about that today. 

So one of the things that I'm curious is that how do you even begin to describe to people what the landscape and the world of hotel redemptions look like for credit cards and points if they're kind of relatively new to this hobby?

Ben: Yeah, I think when we start off, we think about hotels, I think we have to first think about what are our needs? Are you looking to use it for business travel? Are you looking to use it for personal travel? Those may be actually different objectives. So, you may actually need to collect different types of points for those things, or maybe find a brand of a hotel that meets those needs. 

Like let's say, for example, we'll use some of the more popular programs out there. We hear the term Marriott, and we hear Hilton. That is a very business  heavy travel program. The reason that is because they have so many properties. Each of them have close to 8,000 properties around the world. 

When you look at a brand like Hyatt, where you hear a lot about them in the world of points and miles, they have a much smaller footprint. They have about 1,500 or so. So that's like David and Goliath. You don't have a Hyatt everywhere. So you're going to find actually that you're not up against a ton of business travelers when it comes to Hyatt program.

But being smaller is not always a bad thing. Being smaller is actually a great thing when you're looking at the ability to get better treatment. Because if you're an elite in a Starbucks program, you may not pay that much attention to them. But if you are an elite in Nordstrom, maybe a little bit more valuable. So that's kind of sometimes I look at Marriott and Hilton like Starbucks, and I look at Hilton like Nordstrom from that perspective, if you can imagine from a branding standpoint. 

Devon: Yeah. So for people who have never ever used points or miles for a hotel stay before, what are some of the things that they need to keep in mind? Or where do they even start thinking about what type of property they want to stay at? Or where might they be getting value for their points and miles? 

Ben: That's exactly right. Okay, so a lot of the brands have now not just one type of brand, but they have many brands within their brand. So whether that be Hilton, Marriott, or Hyatt, they all have kind of what we call select service. Select service is where when you walk into a three-star hotel, a select service hotel, you're not going to see a concierge. There won't be any bellman. There's no one helping your bags. There's probably free parking for the most part. This could be great for your family. 

So if you're staying at a conference, and you're looking to get good value out of your dollars as well as your points, these are probably the best places to go and use them. Most of the rooms are probably going to be about the same. They're probably going to provide breakfast for everyone, whether it be a Garden Inn, a Hampton Inn, or Hyatt Place, you're going to see those type of things. 

If you're ever trying to run for elite status in the future, and you're trying to give your loyalty of your stays to one program, that's going to help you really get those kind of low stays in. Because a lot of the elite programs don't require a dollar amount. They just require a number of stays. So if they're saying you need to stay 50 nights or 30 nights for a hotel brand to get their top tier status, you could be able to choose a $30 hotel or a $300 hotel. It doesn't really matter. You can stay at a low-cost hotel to make that happen. 

What I really enjoy is most people, if they do want to earn their points at some of the low-cost select service three-stars, they can redeem them at a four-star or five-star. A four and five-star, what you're usually going to see now is that concierge. There'll be the bellman. There's going to be someone helping you with the bags. There may be a nice restaurant there in the hotel. They'll probably have a spot, and then they'll have suites and larger rooms and more amenities there. 

Devon: Yeah. One of the things that you said earlier when you were talking about your background in points and miles that really stuck out to me is you said you had this realization that you had been doing it wrong for years. The way that you've been traveling and the way you had seen other people traveling was that you'd been doing it wrong. 

Now when you help people learn about all of the different options that are available to them to use points to book hotels, where are the areas that you see people most commonly doing it wrong when it comes to using points and miles to book hotel stays or earning points and miles on their hotel stays? 

Ben: That's a great question. The first thing that I think people do when they're trying to decide on hotel programs, they go back, and they look at their balance of all their accounts. They said oh, what do I have? I have Hilton. Oh, I have Marriott. Because of that one factor, because they don't know the difference between the different brands, which one is a Starbucks versus which one is a Nordstrom, they said, you know what? 

Since I already have Hilton, since I already have Marriott, let me get more of those points because I already have built out a balance. Not realizing they could have had a signed up for a new card and they could have reached that same balance or more and then been earning the points that are going to be more better value. Because here's the thing. The first thing about hotel points is that they're not all created equal.

Devon: Okay, tell us more about that. What do we need to know about the value of different hotel points currencies? 

Ben: Generally speaking, most points are one cent per point. So if you're going to do quick math, you guys, I know I have people here who are math geniuses, but if you have 1,000 points, all you need to do is drop the last two zeros or put a decimal point after the last two zeros. That's how much points that translates into dollars. So 1,000 points is like $10. Generally speaking. 

Most hotel programs are less than one cent per point. So most airline programs, generally speaking, you can get better than one cent. You one and a half, 1.7, six cents per point. If you're doing business in first, you can get more than one cent per point. But if we use one cent per point as a baseline for each point, I would say the majority of hotel programs are less than that. 

So now everyone has a different value, but I would say that Hilton and IHG are probably, Hilton, I would give them a half a cent per point. So you need two Hilton points to make one penny. IHG, which is another big one, the Intercontinental Group and the Holiday Inn Group. There's probably about 0.6 of a cent. So maybe another one higher. Then I would give Marriott another point. So that'll be like 0.7. So Marriott points are worth more than Hilton. 

The only one of these that are probably better than that is probably Hyatt. I would say, generally speaking, I would give Hyatt 1.6, 1.7, although most people are shooting for two cents or higher with their Hyatt points. So here's the thing. Let me give you the simple math. 

If you have a $300 room, and you're looking to pay with Hyatt points, they'll probably charge you somewhere between 15,000 to 18,000 points for that $300 room. If you have Marriott points, they'll probably charge you about 35,000 for that $300 room. If you're using Hilton or IHG, you're probably looking at paying 50,000 Hilton points, honors points for that. So if you're going to be transferring from some of those banks like Amex or Chase or any of those programs over, you have to realize that you're not getting the equal value. You're going to be getting maybe less value. 

So which is the reason why a lot of times people lean to Chase that are trying to maximize is because they don't have to transfer so many points.

Devon: Yeah. I think that that's something that especially when we compare kind of on a global level using points for things like airline redemptions versus using points for hotel redemptions, that's a really important distinction to make. Because when I think about the major transferable points currencies, like you've mentioned, are Amex, Chase, Citi, Capital One, Bilt miles.

To me, and correct me if your experience is different, I kind of value all of those major transferable points roughly equally in terms of then considering the value of transferring those points out to an airline transfer partner and then being able to book a flight. Like when I think about an airline program, like Air Canada's Aeroplan program that's a transfer partner for those major points currencies. To me, whether I transfer an Amex point or a Chase point to Aeroplan, I don't feel like there's an enormous difference when I'm thinking about the discrepancy in value there.

But if we're looking at something like Chase, again, on the hotel side where we can transfer points theoretically over to Hyatt, or we can transfer Chase points over to Marriott. Sounds like the game is very different when we compare the value of transferring points out to hotels for many of these transferable points currencies versus doing that same analysis when it comes to actually transferring the points out to hotels. 

So do you think it ever makes sense to take any of our transferable points currencies and transfer them out to, like you said, a Marriott or a Hilton or an IHG where you're arguing that the value there might actually be less than the value we could get from that same point, moving it over to an airline transfer partner? 

Ben: If we're talking dollars and cents, it's rare that making a transfer to a hotel is better than making a transfer to an airline. Many times you'll see transfer bonuses from these banks that even increases that value to go. So not only are they transferring one to one, but they're going to give you another 30 percent to move. So the proposition to move to a hotel is very, very low. 

What I find is I don't usually recommend folks to transfer Amex to a hotel. Even though you may love that Hilton property, it's just like I'm scratching my head going, I'd rather have you get a Hilton card. I'd rather have you go stay at a Hilton and earn Hilton points another way rather than taking those valuable points that could be worth two, three cents for an airline and get only half a cent value out of it. 

Yes, sometimes there is a bonus to the hotel. Like we saw recently, Marriott, they were offering a 70 percent bonus to a hotel, which okay there's something to think about there. There's another factor to also think about. Sometimes I've seen people with a lot of Marriott points. A lot of people may not know this is that Marriott, Hilton, IHG, they allow you to transfer their hotel points to an airline. So if you don't want to use hotel points, you can go backwards and go to the airlines. However, it's not a one to one. You're looking at anywhere between a ten to one, five to one, three to one. The best one is Marriott, three to one. So you're not getting as much points value by doing that either.

But that I have actually seen more. I've actually seen people actually transfer the multitude of Hilton points that they have. You're going, Ben, if I can't use all these Hilton points, what can I do with them? I said you could transfer from an airline if that makes sense as well. 

Devon: Yeah, actually, I'm curious if you think this was a terrible idea. I did this for the first time. So I had points that were in the old SPG hotel program. So we're talking now more than just a few years old where I had accrued a lot of SPG points. Obviously, Marriott came in, overtook that program. So then I'd had a lot of Marriott points that were sitting there. 

Because, in terms of the hotel world, I am much more loyal to Hyatt. I have not really seen for myself a lot of great potential uses of redeeming those Marriott points within the Marriott hotel kind of portfolio. So literally, as of last week, I transferred over almost all of my Marriott points to an airline, specifically to Alaska Airlines.

I use those points to book business class award flights on an otherwise somewhat hard to access airline for award redemptions, which is Condor Airlines. So for me, the proposition value of that was really, really unique. But like I said, I had those points for, I mean, years and years and years before I found what I thought was going to be a really, really great use for them.

Ben: I mean, SPG points were like the golden ticket. You could use them, because I remember SPG was like 2,000 points for one night at one time. The fact that they can transfer to any program from an airline perspective and even gave you a bonus you transfer 20, you get 60, you get you get another 5,000 more. So, I mean, these were such a great opportunity. So I think what you did was fantastic.

Actually, but here's how I'm actually using my Marriott points nowadays. I have a few hundred thousand, and they have this program called Marriott Moments. I am totally in love with this program. I actually think the best value to use is for these events right now. Because they're charging a lot for Marriott points to be redeemed at a hotel. I'm like what do I get out of it? I get a hotel night. 

But what if I said 60,000 points can get you to the Billboard Awards, VIP, red carpet, you meet the executives. You get to get up to the celebrities like close up. Like, I love Carol Jean. I was like literally like five feet away from her. My wife was like why don't you say something? I'm like I couldn’t say anything. 

Then if you like, if your spouse or your partner or you like F1 racing, you could use those things to go to the Austin Grand Prix or Miami Grand Prix. You could use it to go walk around the track and get to meet the team. They have one where they were doing Miami, and you can get on the yacht of the Mercedes yacht and watch the game from the Mercedes official yacht. It was crazy. Like things like that you could do to your points that you cannot or you wouldn't probably pay cash for because these things are. So you get really good value out of those things.

So they have a lot of events like that. I'm even talking to a company right now that wants to do that with Amex points. So these are things I think people are looking at beyond just a hotel room nowadays is looking at what kind of unique experiences can they offer from these points.

Devon: Yeah. I think that's such an interesting kind of opportunity to bring up. Because, again, when I think about using transferable points and transferring over to an airline, I'm thinking about booking flights. It's sort of like not a zero sum game, but when you're moving your points over to an airline, you're not thinking about then oh, I'm going to use those airline miles, and I'm going to then do something totally different than fly on an airplane with them. 

So it's interesting that when it comes to the world of hotel points, that there are these options beyond just using your hotel points to book a hotel stay or offset the cost of a hotel stay. That, like you said, you may even potentially get more value, whether that's a monetary value or just the value of your experience out of using your points that way.

Ben: Yeah. I mean, we're looking at experiences nowadays. I think this generation we're looking at where are we going to? Why are you getting on a plane in the first place? I mean, other than work, but you're going there to experience something different. What if that destination you're trying to get to requires cash money? If you can be able to use your points for that and get great value out of it, I think those are things to consider. 

I mean, if you're heading to Barcelona because you want to go see Taylor Swift, what if you could use your points for the Taylor Swift concert as opposed to, and have VIP access and things like that that you couldn't use or get? It's not always that easy, as we know, to obtain some of those tickets. 

Devon: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm curious to hear from you if the way that we think potentially about our transferable points is that maybe the best value of them is not actually in moving them over to some of these hotel chains, but people still want to be able to book hotel stays. There is potentially tremendous value in using points or what you can get out of credit cards in the hotel space. 

What do some of those potential opportunities look like? If we're not going to be moving our transferable points over to hotel, then where is there room to really take advantage of credit card points and miles in the hotel space?

Ben: I think they first of all, that's a great segue here into actually hotel cards. I think there are hotel cards. For example, I used to be a Hilton Diamond for many years and Marriott Platinum and Titanium and things like that. I've kind of decided to simplify my life. I'm not trying to chase everything everywhere nowadays, and I'm trying to look at places that would take care of myself and my family the best. 

There is a good argument for Hyatt, why Hyatt is probably the best. I think Hyatt is probably the best for a family. It's probably the best for points and miles traveler, period. It's easy. They're focused on service and taking care of the customer, which I think you don't always find in the bigger chains. I say they're one of the smaller chains because their footprint is just much smaller. 

If you're traveling for work and you're staying at Hilton and Marriott, I would actually consider paying cash rates, maybe getting one of their credit cards at that point and earning points that way with them. Then looking at how you could be able to get discounts. Like, for example, if you have a AAA discount, if you have a AAA card, you can. If you work for the government, you can. If you work for the military, you can. If you're a senior citizen, you can. There's quite a bit. 

Sometimes people will work for a large company, and they have corporate discounts as well. So leveraging those things can help you be able to still stay at a four star and five star without having to pay four and five star prices. 

Devon: Yeah, that's really incredible. But in terms of the co-branded hotel credit cards, because there are so many of them that are potentially available. Right. We see Chase offers Hyatt and IHG and Marriott co-branded credit cards. American Express has Marriott and Hilton co-branded cards. There's many more just beyond those two that we think of. How can people even begin to think about looking at what co-branded card might be good for them? When does it make sense to add a hotel co-branded credit card to their credit card portfolio? 

Ben: Okay, so one of the questions I get a lot is which credit card, hotel credit card should I get? Okay, I mean that's like one of the first questions I usually get all the time. Here's the thing. Some of these elite program status, like if you have loyalty with them, allow you to earn free upgrades, allow you to get a better room, better access, free breakfast. Some of them offer a food and beverage credit. So if you want those great perks, you may want to earn elite status. Some of these credit cards come with status. There is usually an entry level, a mid-tier, and a top tier. So there's usually three levels of service.

I would say the majority of them will offer something around either entry level, like the first tier or the mid-tier. But I would say that the only one that offers kind of top tier would be Hilton. 

So one just to give Hilton some love here, Hilton's great program on their Diamond program is probably one of the single handedly best cards, and their Aspire card from Amex, in that that card allows you to become a Diamond without staying the required 42 nights. I mean, literally just having the card, getting approved and having that card can give you Diamond status, which at the rate that they're charging in the 500 range, 550 range, it's something that you're able to get free breakfast room upgrades. These are things that like if you go stay at a Waldorf Astoria Conrad, you're going to get 50 bucks for two people. 

By the way, a little hint here, they give it per registered guest. So even if you're check in by yourself, and you're making the reservation, just put two and they'll put 50. They'll double up your credit. So I would say I don't care if you're staying one or two, just put always two when you're staying at Hilton so you can get your double your food and beverage credit. 

But that's something they made a change recently because before it was just free breakfast. But now they're saying here, we're going to give you 25 a day times two. So that's 50 bucks. You can use it breakfast, lunch, or dinner. So some of you, if you don't eat breakfast, if you intermittent fast, if you just don't like, or you're maybe too busy and maybe you want something later in the afternoon, a coffee or dinner, you can be able to use it. And I think that's hugely valuable. 

When you think about it for the annual fee that you pay, 550. If you're doing that four or five, six times a year, seven, it totally pays for it, and it gets you the status. That's something I would totally think about getting if you're be staying at many Hilton's. 

Marriott has something similar with their Marriott card with Amex as well. Their Brilliant card. That card there allows you get Platinum status, which gives you once again the free breakfast for two, the upgrades. You don't even need to have the top tier. Just platinum is that sweet spot for Marriott there. So. Then each of these cards come with their own free night certificate. So when you renew the card, they're giving you another free night that you could be able to use somewhere else. I think these are hugely valuable perks. 

So even if you're not necessarily loyal to one brand, you're not staying enough to reach their status. You can kind of shortcut it by getting one of these co-branded credit cards. 

Devon: You mentioned those free night certificates. I know that there's a lot of different hotel co-branded credit cards that as a benefit of just holding the credit card, paying your annual fee, you get a free night certificate that you can use each year that you hold the card. What are some of the mistakes that you see people make around these free night certificates? Do you have any tips for how we can maximize this benefit? 

Ben: Yeah, so the hotel gives you a free night certificate, but it's probably not like the five star hotel. Although the Hilton one's great because I think you could use a Hilton one at 98 percent of all the hotels. I mean, you can even use it in the Maldives, a Waldorf Astoria, if you would like to. Those rooms run like $2,700 a night. You can use a free night certificate for $2,700 night room.

But let's just say for normal people who are not going all the way in the Maldives, you can pretty much use them anywhere for Hilton. But if you're looking at like in a Marriott or Hyatt or IHG, they have caps on what you can use them at. 

Here's the best thing. I would suggest when I apply for a card, I usually get two cards, one for myself and one for my partner, my P2, because in that situation now, we actually can turn instead of just a one night stay into a two night stay because it's not always easy to use a one night stay. You say oh, my free night certificate is expiring in four months. Hold on, let me make a vacation. Oh, I'm not going to do a vacation just for one night. Maybe I'll do a staycation. Now you're creating a vacation around the free night, and it doesn't feel as valuable. 

So I always recommend try to get two free night certificates so that way you can be able to team it up and you can book a back to back reservation with each one. Now you can actually make it into a nice staycation or go somewhere and actually really use it the right way.

Devon: Yeah, that is a great tip. Now, one of the things that people always ask me about, and honestly, I don't have the answer for them. I have a feeling that you might have an answer, which is why I wanted to ask you this, is that people commonly ask if I'm going to go ahead and book a hotel stay using my credit card points, am I somehow seen differently by the hotel staff or differently by this company when I check in? Do I get treated any differently than if I'm going to book a hotel stay using cash? Is there anything that we need to know about the way that hotels see us as paying customers versus points booking customers? 

If you ask the accounting department, they look at you different. But if you ask the front desk, they probably don't. But I will say this, when the hotel itself that you're staying at and the brand that you're booking it with that offers a loyalty program, I want you to think of them as two entities. 

When you walk into a hotel, most of the time that hotel is not actually owned by that brand. Many times the hotel brands now have divested themselves of all these properties. So what we call asset light. They are basically a marketing group for them. So when the hotel owner teams up with the actual brand, they're getting reimbursed for those hotel points that you are redeeming.

For a long time, they would get reimbursed a certain level, which is usually about the point value that we were saying earlier, kind of that wholesale rate. They weren't getting a higher rate. But if their occupancy was over 90 percent, then they would get paid at a much higher rate, which is closer to what their average daily rate on cash would be. 

So to answer your question, they don't view you any differently. But I will say if you're looking for reimbursement and things like that, I think it's definitely, from their perspective, it's a more lucrative to pay a cash stay. But I would say this, I don't expect you to think of if I pay with points or I paid with cash, it's going to be treated any differently. But there are certain rules about using your points that you can't always get or you may be different rules. 

Like, for example, if you're a Hyatt Globalist, if you're staying on a point stay, you get free parking because they get reimbursed. But if you're staying on a cash stay, they don't cover your parking because there's no reimbursement. So they're charging for those type of things. So that's why sometimes people get mixed up. Like, how is it I'm using points but I'm getting free parking but when I don't use points, and that's because they're getting reimbursed when you're using your points. 

Devon: Yeah, that is so good to know. When you talk about some of these nuances of status, some benefits that you get if you do have certain status or even you have status but you're booking a different type of stay. I think a lot of people have a question about what are truly the benefits of status and how do we decide when it's worth it to try to chase status within a specific hotel brand if we're not going to go the route that you mentioned before of just getting one of the credit cards that might confer really high status just by holding the card. So how do you counsel or advise people about when is it worth it to get hotel status? 

Ben: So I think you've got to take a look at your actual stays and your actual travel. Some of the mid-tier statuses, like Marriott has 50 nights. Mid-tier for Hyatt is closer to 30 nights versus 60 for Globalist. So if you're looking at something around mid-tier, you could be able to get there. But instead of splitting it up, here's the thing. 

I wouldn't split it up like I'm going to do mid-tier and mid-tier on two different programs. Honestly, I would try to find one program that fits your travel needs, your locations, and go at the highest tier that you can with one program. Look at it from that perspective. Because once you do get one status or the highest status you can with one program, you can always go to the competing, the competitor. They can always offer you to try to poach you away and bring you here. They may actually match you. They do that regularly. I'll say this. You could probably match yourself regularly, like meaning like you could do it every year if you wanted to. 

Here's the thing. People's travels change. So they're not saying, well, if you match this year, we won't match you the other year. The majority of them will allow you to match. I mean, I don't really need to match, but sometimes I match just to see if it still works. I've matched year after year. So I would try to pick the program that makes the most sense. 

If you think they're not taking care of you or you're not going to be able to do what you did the year before, there's no harm in trying out a different program. I think all the programs have fantastic perks. Like IHG is an unsung hero. I think they really have pushed up their Diamond program, their top tier program, that at some point I actually think they're a little bit better than Hilton's now Diamond program. 

Devon: For people who already have status in one program and their ears just perked up when you were talking about this idea of status matching, what does that actually look like? How does somebody go about and request a status match if they do want to try to confer their status in one of these major hotel brands or chains to a different hotel brand? 

Ben: So most of them will be able to offer you either an organized, they'll set up a website where you can actually do it. If they don't, here's the thing. What your readers and listeners can do is they could literally reach out to concierge. They could reach out to the Hilton Diamond program and ask and request either a challenge or a match. The difference between a match and a challenge is a match would mean that I have status. I'm going to offer you exactly the same thing. 

Most of the hotels over the past few years, they have challenged with that because now we don't know if you're even going to stay with us. We just gave you the status without actually staying. So some people didn't actually do the stays at all. Then the few stays they did, they were getting top tier or they got mid-tier status. 

So a lot of the hotels have moved now more to a challenge where I will give you the status for a few months. During those few months, come stay with us. If you stay with us, we'll extend it for another year. So that's how it typically looks like nowadays where they're trying to bring you over. You don't have to be loyal to them forever. You can try it out. I think a lot of times the best thing to do is trial and error. See what works for you.  

I can sit here and talk about Hyatt all day long. But if Hilton makes more sense for you because of the way you travel or Marriott makes more sense for you because the way you're traveling, that makes sense. Like I think when it comes to cash, if you're doing a lot of cash stays, Marriott is really unbeatable because they have so many brands. It's so easy to stay with them. You turn around,  and you run into Marriott everywhere. So for most people, they're going to easily have that. 

Hyatt, however, is one of the few that doesn't offer status match or status challenge. Although there is one right now. If you are an Elite, they have a partnership. Hyatt has a program with Elite, they offer that as well. If you work for a corporation that also works as well. So there are a few things that you can be able to do that that will help you get to that status a little bit easier. You can do a match. 

Well, they may say like Hyatt's run right now is if you stay 10 nights with us, we'll give you Explorer. If you stay 20 nights in 90 days, you can become a Globalist, which is a shorter version of 60 nights. Because normally you need to stay 60 nights for Globalists. When they do a challenge, it's a shorter period of time, but it's also a less number of days. 

Devon: Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of status for folks who have kind of done that analysis and for them, it doesn't make sense to go and chase status with one specific hotel brand because the number of nights they plan to stay at that brand or that property over the course of a year or the amount of credit card spend they would have to allocate to a co-branded hotel credit card just doesn't make sense for them to really want to go all in on chasing status with one hotel brand. At the same time, they would love to take advantage of some aspects that status confers. You've mentioned some things, some benefits like a food benefit, a parking benefit, or access to upgrades.

Do you have any tips or tricks? Are there any kind of alternative methods to getting some of the benefits of status without actually having to go through that effort of qualifying, especially for top tier status with any of these brands? 

Ben: Yeah, I would say this. So here's one of the things I teach my masterclasses. I think most people don't realize that they should build a relationship with a property. A property unlike a airline, for example, every time you get on a plane, you have a different captain, a different crew, a different gate agent. So it's hard to build a relationship that way. 

But when you're looking at a hotel, it's the same staff typically. The GM is usually there for a few years, operation manager, housekeeping. It's usually pretty steady. When you're looking at it from that perspective, a lot of times they're in the hospitality business. We forget that. The hospitality business is I'm here to serve you. They know that you have a lot of choices. Hotels today are not competing against just other hotels. They're competing against Airbnbs. They're competing against alternative housing. 

In order to kind of bring you back, you need to explain to them and communicate to them that you're a hotel person. You like hotels. If you do that, I think that type of communication can be able to be really helpful and get you a conversation going. Because here's the thing. If they treated you really well, when you're back in that same city again, would you not think about staying with them again? Especially if you had a fantastic experience. They know that. You know that. You may not be cognizant of that, but that's something that you need to be aware of. 

Here's the thing. I remember talking to a GM one time at a top tier property. He says this, “We call you a guest.” He says, “As a GM,” he goes, “we call you guests. That's how you are.” But does a guest know the host? Most people walk in a hotel and don't even know who runs the place. They know nothing. You feel like you walk in, and you're kind of the nameless masses of people that just kind of I'm staying here. But when they call you a guest, in my opinion, you need to think about who is the host. 

So I have no problem. I encourage my students to reach out and announce to the host that you're arriving. It's not that you're announcing that you want anything, but it's announcing, in my opinion, to let them know. Because think about this for a second. 

When you're traveling, sometimes to a foreign country, out of your comfort zone, it's a very different situation. You could have a medical emergency. I mean, we're talking to this audience right now. It happens. Next thing you know, you're on the floor. Is the first time you want to meet your host when you're lying on the floor and you need call 911? You want to know that they know who you are and they're going to take care of you, get you to the right hospital. Because these are the things that happen in life when you're traveling. 

Medical emergencies happen. It's the worst when you're not at home, and you're somewhere far away. Really, the only people who are there who can provide service to you is your host at that hotel. So I really feel a lot of times people ignore that fact. They may say early on well, I don't know if I'm ever going to stay there again. Why should I take the time to build a relationship? Because if you really enjoyed that property, would you not want to stay there again? 

I think that's the thing I want everyone to think of. So what do you do when you communicate with this property? What do you say? I would say that you're excited to be attending. Let them know a couple of things about what you're excited about. 

Here's the thing. A lot of times people say oh, it's my birthday. Here's the thing. Do you know everyone travels for their birthday? I just want, like if you said it's your birthday, it's not really going to raise an eyebrow like the way it's going to raise for you. Like for you, that's important. I'm not saying that they don't think, but they're not saying it. But say something different than it's your birthday. If you want to get something nice, here's the thing. 

I've had Golds, Marriott Golds, beat out Titaniums for an upgrade. I've had people, on a sold out conference. Okay, I've had my students because I taught them that they need to learn how to communicate with properties. Let me give you an example. 

When I communicate with a property recently, I was heading, I do this father daughter trip with my daughter now. So one of my friends did this when his daughter turned 16. I thought to myself why do I have to wait until my daughter turns 16 to do this? I'm going to do this. So every year I take my daughter, father, daughter.

We went to Porto, Portugal one time. Went to a big island, Hawaii. So when I wrote to the, when I communicated to the property manager, I told them, that the reason we're traveling there, it's our first time seeing your property, and it's our father daughter trip. I was explaining a little bit about what we were doing. I said you know what? She likes to run around a little bit. Do you think you can find room for us to have a little more space? She did. They were able. 

Anyway, space available is a key, by the way. You got to say space available because you got to talk to the people. So here's two things. You got to talk to the one who has the power to upgrade you. Number two has the willingness to upgrade you. They don't have the power, and they don't have the willingness, not going to happen. So a lot of time people talk to the wrong person and then having that right communication.

So there's a whole thing I cover in class. But those are the things that I want people to understand is that building a relationship, communicating with the property, let me know what you want and being a paying guest. It's not just that there's more to it than just going, I have status. Because nowadays, when you look at Marriott, there's so many people with status. What's going to differentiate you from everybody else is having that relationship. That's, I think, a really key thing when you're looking at hotels.

Devon: Yeah, and I think that's such a great tip, because, again, there are going to be some people who attain status either because they've made a really deliberate effort to meet all the milestones to do that, or in the cases where you can get status just from holding one specific credit card. That might be another avenue that someone takes. But even so, I think the vast majority of people may never actually earn the top tier level of status in any given hotel program in any given year.

So I think that it's really great to hear, though, that there are still avenues where we can be treated as if we do have status and how fundamentally important it is to try to establish those relationships with different brands. So I was wondering if you have, before we wrap up today, just any last tips or pieces of advice for people in terms of getting the most out of their points and miles or getting the most out of their hotel stays? 

Ben: Yeah, I think most people when you're looking at getting more points out of your hotel stays, I mean, be wise about how you want to redeem them. Like I said, not all points are created equal. So I think that's one first thing that folks should take a look at. 

Then take a look at, too, what are properties that provide the services that you're looking for? If you're looking for an upgrade, if you're looking for a spa, you're not going to find that at a Hyatt Place. So understand, too, what brands make sense for you. 

My wife and I were talking the other day. We were talking about Hilton. I said I like Hilton's Conrad's. I like their Waldorf Astoria. The problem is for me is that there's not enough of them. I wish they had more. As many of the 8,000 properties they have, the majority of them end up being those Hampton Inns and Garden Inns. So even though they have a large footprint, the type of hotels you like, do they have a lot of those? Are there enough of that around the world that you could be able to go and earn? 

Because if all your goal is to go earn and go stay at those nice high end properties, and you just look at the big number of 8,000, but then don't realize that the majority of them are in the select service and three stars, that may not make sense for you. When you really look at what Hyatt does, for example, and they tend to be in the upscale to luxury market, when you're looking at that, the lowest they get is Hyatt Place and Hyatt House and the Hyatt Studios. The majority of them tend to be in the four and five star properties. 

So if you like independent, I really think Hyatt may be a good way for you to be able to use your Chase points. That's how I typically would say that most of my Chase points would actually be that way. 

Surprisingly, believe it or not, I actually like looking at cheap cash fares as well. In those cheap cash fare situations, I actually use a travel portal. So I know a lot of people say, don't use a travel portal. Here's my philosophy on points. If the cash rate is low, I pay cash or use a portal. if the cash rate is high, then I look at transferring my points somewhere else. So I can get better value out of that. 

Devon: Incredible. Ben, thank you so much for sharing those tips as well as just your entire wealth of knowledge about hotels with us today. I really appreciate your time. For people in the audience who are interested in learning more about you and about what you do, where are a couple of good places for people to find you? 

Ben: So I'm in a lot of channels like TikTok and Instagram, and I have a Facebook group as well. But I would say the majority of my time on social will end up being on Instagram. Most of my audience are, I would say like 80% are female professionals who run a family, and they want advice about family travel. That's how I usually run most of my content is around that. 

But I also have a website, Ben's Big Deal. I run a masterclass once a month. One is on airlines and the other month I'll switch off, and I'll run on the hotels. It's a four-day class. It's live. They can ask me questions, and it's always fun. Because I like, I think that it's important people get the answers that they want that is personalized to them. Everyone has a different travel situation and lifestyle and trying to find the right point for your lifestyle. I think it's most important thing is no one size fits all. You have to find what's right for you. 

Devon: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more about that. So Ben, thank you so much for your time today. We're going to go ahead and make sure that all of the links to where people can find you are going to be included in the episode show notes and the episode description. Thank you for being with us here today. I really, really appreciate your time. 

Ben: Thank you very much.

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Point Me to First Class. If you want more tips on turning your expenses into travel, visit pointmetofirstclass.com to learn more. See you next week.