12. You Don’t Need to Be a Points Expert to Fly First Class with Dr. Priyanka Venugopal

Welcome to Point Me to First-class, the only show for employed professionals, entrepreneurs, and business owners who are looking to optimize their higher-than-average expenses to travel the world. I'm your host, Devon Gimbel, and I believe that your expenses are your greatest untapped asset if you know how to leverage them. Ready to dive into the world of credit card points and miles so you can travel more, travel better, and travel often? Let's get started.

Hey everyone. I am so excited to share another fantastic interview with you today on today's podcast. But before we jump into that, I want to invite you to join Points Made Easy before doors close for enrollment this Friday, May 26. Points Made Easy is my online course that walks you through exactly how to maximize the number of points you can earn for the money that you're already spending, and breaks down how to find those great points deals you've heard us talk about on the podcast so that you can get the most value from your points possible.

I have condensed down everything I've learned about points over the last nine years so that you can get great points travel in much less time than it took me. Whether you're brand new to points travel and are a little bit confused or overwhelmed about how to jump into this world and which rewards credit cards will be the best for you to get started. Or if you've been earning points for a while but have no idea how to use those points to book amazing travel so that you can save thousands of dollars year after year, Points Made Easy was made just for you.

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Devon Gimbel: Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. Today I am joined by the fabulous Dr. Priyanka Venugopal. She is a physician turned coach for high achieving working moms. She is here today to tell us all about her first first-class flight. Priyanka, thank you for joining me today. How are you doing?

Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: I'm doing so great. It is such a pleasure to be here. I love what you're doing. I cannot wait to talk to everybody about how much you've helped me. Oh, my gosh.

Devon: Well, I cannot wait to hear your story. I love what I'm doing too. I love it because of stories like yours. I've said on the podcast before that for many years I had truly just the pure enjoyment of learning how to do points and experiencing them for myself. while that is still absolutely amazing, what's even more fulfilling for me now is helping other people do the same exact thing.

one of my absolute favorite stories to hear from people is their first time doing something with points, whatever that first is. One of your first firsts is pretty incredible because it wasn't just a trip using points, which is great. It was your first first-class flight. I want to hear everything about this. So can you please set the stage for us? Tell us a little bit about what was this flight? Where were you all going? How did this trip kind of come into fruition?

Dr. Priyanka: Yeah, so this flight, it was to India. It was our very first family trip. So it's me, my husband, and my two kids. I have a seven year old son and a four year old daughter. it has been many, many years since we had ever been to India. My kids have never even been yet. So it was a big deal to go on this trip.

I would say that especially before becoming an entrepreneur, I'm an OBGYN physician. I just didn't travel very much especially like through medical school and residency. Somehow international travel went downhill. so it just wasn't on my radar to be honest. My whole life, whenever we would travel. Actually, I was listening to your episode of Payal. so much of what she was saying around her travel and her trips to India and resonated with me so much. It was very similar. We'd go economy to India. Didn't travel very much.

But I would say after becoming an entrepreneur, I would hear about other entrepreneurs traveling with a lot of style and really enjoying these experiences and these lounges and definitely first-class travel. that was when I think I got bit by the bug, which was like I wonder what that would even be. I don't think I'd ever even asked myself the question before.

I think you kind of came into my life at the perfect time. Because you're like there's this thing called credit card points. you probably have a lot if you're an entrepreneur. I didn't even know, which we should actually get into. I don't even think I knew how many points I had. I didn't know. I was very ignorant, to be honest, about my credit card history and the points on there. But you actually planted that seed. Like maybe it's possible to do this.

that was when I just I let that train go wild. I was like maybe we can do this trip and like do it in style. Like what would that even look like? So that was when I, at least, opened the doors to exploring it as a possibility. I had no idea where to start, which is why you were so instrumental. But we found the best flight. It ended up being a Virgin Atlantic. the four of us got to go first-class all the way to India. it was, can I ever go back? I don't even know if I can ever go back. It was so good.

Devon: Oh my gosh, there are so many things that I want to ask you more about this particular flight. But first, kind of help me understand when you talk about this timeframe, right? Like you were starting from basically complete scratch, right? You had some credit cards. It doesn't sound like you were really kind of strategically and deliberately using them to earn points.

So you go from not really knowing exactly what this thing is or how to optimize it or how to leverage it to saying, “Wow, I wonder if we could really put this into play for this very specific trip coming up.”

But what was that timeframe between you're gonna have learning about points as a thing that you could theoretically do and knowing that you wanted to use them for this trip? Was that like a week in between the timeframe? Six years between the timeframe?

Dr. Priyanka: Right, that's such a good question. So I would say that I like to really think of myself, and I say this with complete love for myself, like complete credit card ignorance is really how I would self-identify, even now. I'm gonna be totally honest, even now I feel quite ignorant when it comes to points and credit cards.

But I would say that the idea for the trip to India started in about like August or September. the reason is because my grandmother is getting quite old. She's not doing as well. I really wanted to see her, and I wanted the kids to meet her. my husband's grandparents who live in Bengaluru, they are also getting older. So we really were like you know what? This is the year we definitely want to take this trip to India. Spring break, which fell in April of 2023. would be a great time.

so that was when we started thinking about it in the fall. I didn't look at tickets. I just, in my mind, assumed it was going to be an economy because that's how I traveled growing up. It was always economy. I have all these memories from like the 80s and 90s of my mom throwing me on the floor. Like they used to let you do that. I don't feel like you do that anymore, but in economy she would book that first row where there's a space on the front, and I just basically brought a sleeping bag onto the flight. That would be me. That was a child. That was me.

so I assumed it was going to be economy until you told me, I think it was in November. You sent me a message saying Priyanka, “There is some amazing thing happening. There's a 3X transfer. If you transfer points, you get three X the points.” I was like what are you referring to? What does that mean? What is 3X? What is transfer? Like, I need definitions. Devon, what are we doing? That was when I would say within a week booked tickets. Once you told me there's like 3X, do it, book it. It was very quick after that.

Devon: This is actually completely incredible to me because on the one hand, I think it's so fascinating that you say that you still feel very ignorant when it comes to points. at the same time, you must not be. I mean, here's one of the things that I think it's so useful for people to hear and to understand is that when it comes to points, I don't think we exist in this binary land of your ignorant/”bad” at them, or you book your trips flawlessly, and you're “great” at them. Right? I think this is such a common kind of perspective that people have. Then they self-identify as one or the other.

most of the people who I work with, I think, by the nature of I work with a lot of physicians, a lot of business owners, a lot of attorneys, people who are used to kind of having incredibly high standards for themselves. What I see most often is that people very quickly label themselves as exactly how you did. Like because I maybe don't know every single thing, it must be that I don't know anything. that is not true.

so one of the things that I really hope people take from your story is that you can do really incredible things with points before you're “an expert”, right, or before you've booked 17 different first-class flights using your points. There is always something amazing that you can do with your points. I want to point out that you had, what is in my mind, a relatively short timeframe.

Like when we talk about your first getting this idea about this amazing trip that you can take with your family in August of 2022, and you really got down to booking it around November of 2022. That is impossible if you don't already have points. Like one of the things that is true is that in order to book a trip using points, you’ve got to have the points in your account. So even being “ignorant” about this, somehow you still managed to have the points that you needed in order to book.

Again, we've only talked so far about your outbound flight, but you booked for people in Virgins upper-class, right? Their premium product. So we're not talking about just like a little kind of mistake fare that you stumbled on, right? Like, this is the type of redemption that I think a lot of people would love to make. So how is it possible that for someone who's theoretically points ignorant, which again, I'm not gonna believe that for a second.

Dr. Priyanka: I like how you're saying theoretically. I'm like no, Devon. Seriously, I am points ignorant. Let me like, you know what it is? Maybe ignorant is not the best word, but the reason I say that is because absolutely high achievers have this perfectionist tendency that if I don't know everything about this topic, and if I don't understand it inside out then it means I don't know it. it's very all or nothing. this is absolutely like a trait of the perfectionist.

But I will say that, when I look at myself comparing myself, I think, to other people that are traveling with points, when I see like in the Facebook groups people are discussing points, the language and the lingo and like acronyms that they're using. I'm like I'm just confused. What are they referring to?

The difference, I think, is I am also ready to be curious about it. I want to educate myself about it. So that's why I was saying I say it with a lot of love that I might be a little ignorant on the topic because I don't know the definitions. I don't know what points equal, what's a good point value? I don't know.

But I think what really is what created this result for me is I was so willing to be curious and asked for help, which I want to definitely talk about on this podcast at some point. just ask for help. Like, Devon has such a great strategy and a framework for how to help new people like me, that if I want this experience, it's available to me. I just have to be curious and be willing to learn. That's really, I think, what it was.

Devon: I think that is such an important and underrated quality for people to have. Just, like you said, that willingness to say oh, wait a minute. There is something here that's interesting to me. This possibility is really appealing to me. I don't yet know exactly how to do it. But this is how we learn literally everything in our lives, right? By saying, oh wait a minute. That thing seems interesting. then taking it step by step.

one of the things that I'm super curious about is then how is it that you managed to end up with at least enough points to book this one trip, right? Because you are not the person, at least it sounds like, who started with an idea where you want it to go and then thought, “Okay, how many points do I need? What airline do I want to fly? Which points currency is gonna be the greatest, and what is my plan to earn those points?”

I think that is how some people plan trips, or some people maybe will plan some trips, but you essentially started thinking about booking this trip. you already did have points. So where did those points come from?

Dr. Priyanka: Yeah, so that's a really good question. Because as I was telling you at the beginning, I had no idea. Do I have points? Do I not have points? I don't even know. I remember I had even messaged you. I was like so wait, I'm gonna log in. Where on the screen do I find the points? Like, I mean, this is the level of my friends. If you're listening, if this is you, you're not alone. I am with you.

I'm like where do I look? Are there any big, I need like a big red button that says like click here to know the number of points. I need step by step instructions. Devon was so lovely to help me with that. But I would say that prior to becoming an entrepreneur, I wish I actually knew how many points I had accumulated before I became an entrepreneur.

But I would say that in 2020 when I kind of transitioned from being a physician to becoming an entrepreneur, that was when I kind of entered the world, I would say, of points accumulation. I opened an American Express Platinum business card. I think that there was a few business cards that I was deciding between. I think that you were actually the one that suggested the platinum American Express. This was actually when we had first met. So it's so interesting when we first met –

Devon: I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just have to say this is a warning for everyone on the podcast. If you ever meet me in real life, this is exactly what will happen.

Dr. Priyanka: It was so good. Like oh, that’s what I need to do.

Devon: I will just start giving you credit card advice completely unprompted. I apologize for that in advance if you're someone who has no interest in learning this, but I can't help myself. I will accost you with credit card recommendations. So you have all been very, very fairly warned. Now, you can go back to your story now.

Dr. Priyanka: Because I, again, this is goes all into the identity of. For a very long time, my identity was physician. I literally had, I think it was like two or three personal credit cards. I didn't play very much with credit cards. Didn’t know much about the world of credit cards prior to becoming an entrepreneur. Your message was listen, number one, you need a business credit card. Number one.

Number two, there's so many different types of business credit cards, but this is a really nice one to start. that was all I needed because I trusted you. I knew you, and I went with your recommendation. I didn't do all the research myself. I kind of just went through the filter of I trust what you have to say.

Becoming an entrepreneur, I had a lot of investments in my business. Specifically, I would say my number one investment in my business is coaching. Business coaching, personal coaching that all impacts my business. that was where I would say I probably accumulated the most points is investing in my business. so the way that I like to think about this is like my business really helped me pay for my experience. Go me. Go me for investing in myself, investing in my business at this level that I was able to even accumulate.

Devon: Yeah, and I think that this is such an important point to make because certainly, personal credit cards can be invaluable. I have lots of personal credit cards. I use them all the time. I earn a ton of points with them. this is one of the things that I think people can sometimes overlook is business credit cards, especially, I mean, especially if you're running a business that does incur its own expenses. It is so useful to have these business credit cards to earn points.

Because something that I see because I work with so many solopreneurs. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who are in really the initial part of their business building, right? The first maybe three years of building your business.

something that is really, really common to see is that, especially in that kind of startup phase if you don't have outside funding or outside support, that you're probably investing a lot of money in getting your business off the ground, whatever that looks like. For you, investing in getting coaching and having that support. Some people have to invest in a lot of products and services to sort of get their business off the ground.

during that period of time especially, your business may not be creating a ton of bottom line revenue or profit for you. Right? So as a business owner, you may be putting in significant amount of investment into your business. it's not yet at the stage where you're taking a lot of profit. I think what happens is people who are, especially in that kind of situation, in such an amazing position.

Because no, your business may not be paying you $10,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 a year in profit that then you can go and spend on whatever you want, including travel. But especially if you're having those expenses and your business is not yet in that place where it's throwing off a lot of profit, those expenses themselves when you do leverage them strategically, exactly like you did. To be able to put those expenses on a credit card that's going to earn you a ton of points. Those expenses can then give you exactly what you said that experience for yourself.

I think that that is so overlooked in the world of business. that's one of the things that you're such a great example of, and I really, really want to highlight. So for those of you out there who do have businesses and are thinking, “Well, I'm not yet in a place where my business can support a lot of my travel by actually paying me profit in cash.”

I want you to think about this in a different way and to hear what Priyanka is saying about really then, especially then, being able to strategically get some really fantastic points earning credit cards for your business. Because this is what can happen for you on the other side.

so Priyanka, you started, it sounds like with a couple of different business credit cards that you were using for the expenses that you had in your business. Is there anything else that you did that you can remember deliberately thinking, “Oh, this is going to help me earn a lot of points either for this specific trip to India or just will help me earn points for future travel?”

Dr. Priyanka: I think actually there was one more mental thing that really helped me. I only say this because I feel like this is something that will translate for professional high achievers. Because, again, I am my very first client. I used to think I need to be really established, my business needs to be really established, I need to be further along, for me to reap reward.

I think that what I kind of learned in this process, this was such a great example that I can have a new business or a newish business and be new to this whole entrepreneurial role. also, I can start reaping rewards right away. that has been, I think, a nice thing for me to learn that I don't have to keep waiting to reap rewards. I don't have to keep waiting to be settled and more established. I can actually start leveraging it now.

now my job is like I wonder how I can leverage this? How can I leverage that? Like little, little things. How can I start leveraging and learning about credit cards and points so that I can actually enjoying my experience in the process of building my business? Because there is no end. It's just gonna kind of keep going, and we're gonna keep growing. So how can I leverage it now?

So now I really do think about every single time I'm spending money or investing in my business, I'm not ever thinking about it as a cost. I really do think about it as an investment. Like, what am I getting back from this investment? It's not just what I think initially it's my business. It's like my actual life. I'm getting to get a return on my actual life, not just on my business.

Devon: Yeah, and I love the way that you think about that. Because when we think about the money that we're already spending, I say this so many times, right? Again, whether it's for your personal expenses or your business expenses. If these were things that you were going to purchase or invest in anyway, then what's better than getting that thing that you wanted and then this incredible bonus in the form of points that you can save up and use for something else.

you're such a fantastic example of that. So thank you for sharing kind of that perspective on kind of where you were in your business at the time and the way that you were thinking about using your business expenses. Because I think that all of it is spot on. So.

Dr. Priyanka: There's one block that I will say for you to be aware of if you're listening and you're new, and what I'm saying is resonating with you. That I definitely have that tendency that I need to learn all of it before I can start using it, or I need to like understand the system. I need to understand the process 100% or even like 90% before I can start utilizing points. there was an additional piece of this that I think also played a role with me taking pause, which was my husband.

My husband is also not into the credit card points world. He doesn't know much about it. So I also felt like I need to educate myself a little bit extra, like to come into the conversation with this padding or armor. Because I mean clearly I thought it was going a battle him on how to use our credit card points, how to use this because I didn't know much about it.

so that was the other thing that I think also did hold me up because I knew he was going to have a response. Like, “Oh, I don't know whether we should use points. Where did you get that from?” I felt like I had to come armored, like armed, with information. so that was the other thing to really recognize that I had that hold up. Because I'm not the only one making this decision. Me and him are making this decision together. How can I come in educated and feel like I know what I'm talking about, and also make this decision from place that's really taking both of us, like shared decision making into account?

Devon: Yeah, I'm curious. Do you remember what his response was? Whatever that conversation looked like for you, that first conversation of so I learned about this thing, and I think I want to try it. this is what it is. How?

Dr. Priyanka: Initially he was like, “No, that's crazy. That's not possible.” He was like no. That doesn’t, no. I think that this is kind of the nature. It's so fascinating. Whenever we do something brand new, both me and him together, I think that that's kind of our knee jerk response to the other person.

So if he comes to me with something new, I think my initial response is like oh, no, no, no, no. No is the first answer. then when we kind of continue the conversation, if we're both like open to conversation, then we can kind of dig in. But his first answer was, “No, that's crazy. No, that doesn't make sense. That's all scammy.”

There's something about the points thing means that I think there's some fear around. There's some fear around it. Fear is coming from not knowing. Because we don't know, we were afraid of what we don't know. that was, I think, for sure his initial thing. He didn't know about it. So his kind of natural fear around not knowing lead him to no. That doesn't even make sense. I mean, it can't possibly make sense that we could go first-class because duh, economy. It's called economy for a reason, right? It's the economical, the right way to live. I think we were both kind of coming in with that mindset.

Devon: So I am so curious. I feel I'm jumping ahead in the timeline, but now I'm really dying to know. After he actually did experience some tangible thing that you did with points, right. So you booked yourself, your family, this round trip experience to India. We'll talk a little bit more about the details about the way over versus the way back.

But the way over, like you said, was in Virgins upper class. Their sort of premium flight product. What was his thoughts? Did he share anything with you when you guys got back from the trip about this whole idea about points, and if they really are kind of weird and scammy and worth your time?

Dr. Priyanka: Yeah, absolutely. So I think that for him, he has now gotten to the place of when I think if his initial response was skepticism, that was his starting point. I would say now he's at this teetering on healthy interest. He's not all the way fully in. Fully, like let's go to every credit card point now imaginable. He has not gotten to that land yet. But he's not skeptical anymore. Which, to me, knowing his kind of history and how he is, that's a huge leap for him.

He loved, I mean not only him, the four of us just absolutely loved, loved. I cannot even say, put enough loves in this, how much we loved our trip. Our flight there was just so amazing. I think that I didn't want to rub it in his face too much. But I was like, you know this, I mean, totally happened because of me and my points, right? Let's remember to send Devon a big thank you because that's why this happened. But yeah. So he has definitely gone from skepticism to this healthy interest, but still not fully, fully into the land.

Devon: I think that is perfectly fine. I think one of the other things that comes up a lot for people, especially if they're partnered, is this idea that well, wouldn't it be great or shouldn't my partner and I feel exactly the same about this? Either for our level of interest or our sort of wanting to put effort into this.

one of the things that I think is really great is if you can get to a place where you kind of release the expectation that your partner or your spouse is number one, going to understand what the hell you're talking about when you first have that, hey, there's this thing called points conversation. So just release the expectation that one, they're going to understand it. That two, they're going to be on board immediately. Or that they ever kind of share whatever your level of excitement or enthusiasm or interest in it is. That is not required.

I actually see, speaking from my own personal experience, I have a wonderful, supportive partner, spouse, husband who's kind of watched this whole journey. he loves that I love this. at no point has he ever experienced I would say even a shred of the interest in points travel as I have. that's totally fine. I actually don't need that from him. It means that I get to do what I love, which is kind of take charge of a lot of our kind of travel and points planning, which is great and fun for me.

So if you are out there and you have a partner or a spouse that you kind of want to involve in this game, just know, listen to Priyanka’s experience or my experience, that it's not mandatory that your partner spouse be on board immediately or ever gets as excited about it as you do. Certainly, if it's one of the values and priorities for your relationship to make those financial decisions or travel decisions together, of course, honor that. I'm not saying just ignore your partner completely.

Dr. Priyanka: It’s also I think that, I mean we could probably have a whole podcast episode on relationships and credit card points. Because the number of conversations I've had with my husband on this topic. We've had many conversations on this. I think that the one lesson I kind of took away from it was I'm coming into this conversation. He has skepticism at the start. that makes perfect sense that he does because he doesn't know about certain things that now I'm learning about. I can't expect him to then now take charge of it.

So that was where I had to step into responsibility. I had to step into educating myself, being curious about the points, being willing to invest a little bit of time, energy, and bandwidth in educating myself so that I could come into the conversation, as I was saying earlier, armed.

So I'm not asking him to do more work because that's the last thing he wants. He's like, “Oh, great. Another thing for me to figure out. Another thing that I need to manage. Another thing.” Normally he was the one that was going to book the tickets for our trip. So I'm like you know what? Listen, I know you were going to book these tickets. Guess what? I'm taking that off your plate. I'm gonna really handle it. We’ll talk about it before I do it, but I want you to know I can take care of this.

Then really stepping into owning, owning the full, from beginning to end. I think that that was really important for him to feel safety in, you know what? Priyanka says she has this handled. She clearly has his handled. I don't need to feel so much fear about it anymore.

Devon: Yeah, I think that's such a great point. So let's rewind back to November where you're looking ahead. You're in November 2022. You're looking ahead to spring break of 2023 knowing you want to take your family of four on this trip to India. You do have points in your account. You may or may not have received multiple frantic text messages from me telling you to transfer points over to take advantage of this transfer bonus to Virgin.

then what happens after that? How do you go? Because I think it's these kind of step by step processes that are so helpful for other people to hear. Of okay, so you have points, and then what? How do you actually go from having points in your account to then finding and booking this flight that you guys take over in in Virgin’s upper class?

Dr. Priyanka: Yeah, I think the very first thing was when you sent me that message, you said there's a deadline. If you want to take advantage of this bonus that they're having. I don't even know if that's what it's called, but I think it was a bonus that they're having. You have to make your decision. it was this specific date at midnight. I think that that was in 48 hours or something. The deadline was coming up. obviously, I wasn't aware of it. You're the one that told me about it.

so again, it was one of those okay, am I making this decision? Am I going to transfer these points? Because if I transfer these points, I want to be able to use them. I think during that two day period, number one, I had to talk to my husband about us transferring points over. Not that we were even using the points. Can we just say, did I even know I had points? No. So I wasn't even using it, but oh my gosh, we're transferring it, which means now we have to use it. So that was decision number one.

then the second decision before I transferred the points was to look at flights during that spring break time knowing that there were even flights available. Because the worst thing would have been that we transfer these points, and there's not even a flight available. So you actually had told me that make sure that you just take a peek. Look at the dates that there are some open flights before you do the transfer, but then go ahead and do it.

So I would say that those were the first two steps. Number one, looking for flights that they were available. number two, actually making the decision to transfer the points by the deadline so that I could get the 3X points, which is what allowed us to do the whole trip.

Devon: Yeah. So let's get into what for me is the super fun part, which is the mathy part of this because I love hearing exactly what did you book? How many points did it cost? How much money did you save? I think this is where I really get my dopamine hit from hearing how people are using their points. so if you can remember, for those four upper class tickets that you guys took one way on the way over, right? You were flying out of DC right?

Dr. Priyanka: We were flying out DC to Delhi. I remember we, so initially we tried to book it as a round trip. then we had some debacles later on. But our flight was from DC to Delhi with a stopover in London. We stayed in London for the day. We had an 11 hour layover. that was 105,000 points per person for their first-class or upper class ticket, which I didn't know. Is that a good deal? Is that a bad? Again, because I didn't really know what's the value of a point. So I had to ask you. I was like is that a reasonable number? You're like that's amazing. Do not wait. Do not pass go. Go.

Devon: Yes. Let’s talk a little bit about why that's amazing because I'm sure some people will be listening. they'll be thinking oh, wow, that actually sounds a really high points price for me to take a one way flight. Or oh, wow. That doesn't sound reasonable to me. So let's kind of break this down a little bit more.

Because one of the things that I think is really important to consider, and you've kind of alluded to this already, but especially in the world of points travel is so critically important which is the number of tickets that you're looking for. So you have a family of four. especially if you're looking for premium cabin tickets all on the same flight, which obviously is important to you with kids the ages that your kids are.

It is not always the easiest thing to find for business or first-class or upper class award tickets all together on the same flight, especially with kind of the other component of what was factoring in for you guys, which was you had specific travel dates, right? You were talking about traveling, especially around spring break, which these kind of traditional holiday school periods can be very high demand travel periods.

one of the things that we tend to see is flights can be very expensive, especially during these times of year, right? Traditional spring break time or winter break time. so part of the parameters of your search was that you were traveling during a fairly high demand travel period. You had somewhat fixed dates. Maybe you were flexible a day or two on the front or the end, but you didn't have a month of travel flexibility that you could work within. you were looking for four premium award tickets.

so in the context of those constraints, being able to locate basically any award flight that's going to work for your dates that is not astronomically expensive. I consider astronomically expensive for a one way business class flight to be 250,000/300,000 points per person or more. So in that context, I think that is a fantastic option to find.

then we also kind of want to consider okay well, let's say that you didn't have that number of points. Or, for you, that's just not how you wanted to spend your points, and you were just going to pay cash instead. Do you have a sense of if you were to book that same exact flight and you were just going to pay cash instead of points, do you have any sense of what that would have cost? Is that something that you even looked at or would have been a consideration for you?

Dr. Priyanka: I do remember. I don't have the exact number, but it was like $6,000 or $7,000 per upper class ticket is how much one ticket would have cost. It was around $6,000 or $7,000 one way.

Devon: Yeah, exactly, and that's one way, right. So we're not planning on staying indefinitely. You were planning on coming home from this trip. so that I think, especially in that context, is another reason why I think this was such an amazing use of points. Because just one way for that initial outbound flight. If you're going to be spending $25,000 or $30,000 out of pocket cash for four upper-class tickets then in that context, to me, to spend instead like you said around 400,000, 420,000 points for all four of you is an incredible option to have.

But you didn't come back on upper-class, even though you did fly home on Virgin as well. So tell me a little bit about how did you make the decision about how you guys were going to get home, and whether use cash or whether use points for your return portion of your trip?

Dr. Priyanka: Yeah. So, initially we had booked it as a round trip. But then we got notified, I think it was in January or February, that our return trip had gotten canceled. I remember I sent you a mayday text. Devon, what do I do now? I don't understand. How do I handle this?

I think that what we got really lucky because we were able to find a flight that was also Virgin Atlantic, and we didn't do the upper class tickets. They didn't actually even have upper class seats available. We were able to do their I think it’s called Premium Economy tickets, which is, I guess, their version of business class on the way back. We were able to get those tickets also for points, 40,000 points per person for their premium economy. I would say that if I look back on it now, premium economy was nice, but I mean the upper class was just next level. It was just next level.

Devon: Yeah, we'll talk a little bit about what your experience with the difference of those two things were. But on that return flight, so the four of you, again, you all got tickets on the same flight. This time it was in a different class of service. again, so round trip, having kind of half of your flight on upper-class, half of your flight in Premium Economy.

For four people to book those tickets for less than 600,000 points total, that sounds, I know, to some people or maybe to a lot of people, like a ton of points. 600,000 points is so much. But this also shows you the value of points, right? Because those four round trip tickets would have easily cost you over $30,000 for four people, which I mean, at least in my book, that's a lot of money.

I'm still at the place in my life where personally if I have $30,000 disposable income, I'm not personally spending that on travel for one trip. If you love doing that, amazing. Go for it, right? But for me, this is why I use points, and especially to be able to use 600,000 or fewer points to be able to get over $30,000 in value from one trip, I think is absolutely extraordinary.

one of the things that I think is so great about points is this exact flexibility that you talk about where you can take one kind of leg of your journey in one class of service and the other leg in another class of service. It is very challenging, if not impossible, to construct an itinerary like that from scratch using cash, to book a round trip itinerary where half of it is in business class and half of its in premium economy. this is some of the flexibility that points offers that I personally think make them really, really valuable for travel. That you can kind of do that mixing and matching based on what is available and kind of your preference for itinerary and your dates of travel.

Dr. Priyanka: I think also the other piece of that was that that was a holdup, especially with my husband, was if you now, okay, so we're looking at 600,000 points. that's, let's say, roughly equivalent $30,000 for this trip. The natural place that my brain, and even my husband's brain, would go to was well, if I bought this as economy

If I want to go to India, the purpose of this trip is to go to India to see the family, and especially the grandparents. Who cares about the flight? Just get there in the cheapest possible way. it can be whatever economy seat. If you did the math on that, and we did. Again because it was during spring break, I think tickets were more expensive than average to India. So I want to say that tickets that were on reasonable flights were around $1,200, $1,100 to $1,200 on an economy flight.

So if you do the math, there's no comparison, right? Economy is obviously going to be way, way, way, way cheaper from a numbers standpoint. But then the reason that we actually did this was we were looking at the way we wanted to use our points. It was not a decision about cash. I would never spend $30,000 in cash personally on a flight. But I was like well, what are we using these points for?

So these points are sitting in our account, and we can do something with them. They're gonna either just sit there, which that's fine. We can just let them sit there unless they expire. We can see if there's a cashback option, and figure out the math on what would the cashback value be of each of those points, or we can use them to get something. I think that that was where, for the first time, we were like oh, we can get something of value for these points. It's not just thinking about it as a cash decision. It was actually thinking about points in a different way.

i feel like that was important because we kept going to oh, well an economy ticket is only $1,200. If you think about the numbers, that would have been one reason to hold us back. We had to really think about how are we using the points differently than we would use cash.

Devon: Yeah, I think that's such an incredible point to make. one of the other things that I want to point out is that specifically with these flights that you all took, one of the things that kind of happens in the points and miles world is, I'm sure you've experienced now having booked this flight, is that even though the flight itself is priced out in points, there is always going to be an out of pocket cash component, right? Whether that's taxes, fees, some airlines add what are called surcharges, which is just an additional fee that you have to pay to book a ticket.

Virgin Atlantic, along with other airlines that are based predominantly in the UK, especially British Airways. If you're flying through London, a lot of times even if you are booking an award ticket using points, those airlines specifically can have very high taxes, fees, and surcharges. so it's not that you booked these flights for $0 out of pocket. I do want to acknowledge that for some people listening thinking but wait, especially with Virgin, didn't you also have to pay a couple hundred dollars, especially for four people in terms of the taxes and fees? The answer to that is yes, you do.

so, by no means, I don't think I've ever said this, but if I haven't I want to be very explicit about this. I personally do not consider points traveled to be “free travel”. I mean, there are things that you can do with your points where you're gonna have very minimal out of pocket cost. But this is such a great example of how I consider a really fantastic way of using points, which is that yes, you do have an out of pocket cost. But even that sounds like it was lower than your alternate consideration for cash.

Which is like you were saying. If we were just going to book for round trip, just great, solid economy tickets on this airline, that still for four of you was going to price out at a little less than $5,000. Right? So if that was something that was in the realm of possibility for you all. So we can pay out of pocket for four economy class tickets a little bit less than $5,000. Or, like you said, we can use these points that we've been building up and are sitting here. yes, we still do have to pay cash, but the cash outlay to book those tickets is still significantly less than the cost of the for economy tickets out of pocket would have been.

I think, again, everyone gets to look at points however it works best for them, but that is one of the perspectives that has really helped me. Because if I know I'm going to take a trip anyway with my family, I do think about what is my actual cash budget for this trip, right? If we're gonna fly, all four of us. I also have two young kids.

If we're gonna fly all four of us in economy, and I'm willing to pay that cash price, can I find an option with my points where then my cash outlay is going to be less, hopefully significantly less, than that cash price for our economy? I think that this is a really good example of the trip that you all took of kind of that concept.

I did want to point that out because I know that some people, especially if they are really familiar with different airlines, are probably thinking, “Wait a minute, Virgin tends to have higher taxes, fees, and surcharges than other airlines do.” So I wanted to pay a little bit of attention to that point. But I want to come back and just hear, because this also, I think, is one of just the really fun part of firsts. Your first first-class flight. You kind of said there's a difference between premium economy and flying upper class. What were your favorite parts about flying upper-class on Virgin Airlines?

Dr. Priyanka: Yeah, I think that the first thing is just growing up, I have so many memories when you enter the plane, you just make a right to go to economy. I think that I always had this kind of vision of what happens when you turn left. There's a curtain what's happening behind the curtain. I think that this was the very first time I mean, I was, at this point, minutes away from turning 40 that I ever got to turn left on the flight. It was a big moment for me.

I mean, not to be super dramatic, but it was a little dramatic in my mind. It just was you really getting to step into this experience, and I call it an experience because that is what it was. It didn't feel just a flight. It really felt like it was a part of the trip. So whereas before I think we've thought of we're going to India, and let's just get there and get back. This turned into, because travel takes quite a while, especially to India. This was actually a part of our experience. It turned into a part of our trip in India was the flight there.

I think that turning left, getting to turn left, and go and find our seats was a really special moment. it led me really think about what it was that my willingness to be curious, to learn about points, to let myself be a little uncomfortable, to fight with my husband about this, but really take the leap and just go and try it. Even if we never did this again, to be honest, how worth it, it was for me to have experienced that moment.

I will say, I mean again, I have not travelled very much first-class so I can't compare it to other flights, but it was a dream. It was a dream. You got to lie down. These seats, after a certain point in the service, they turn into full beds so you can fully lie down, which was really nice. I didn't want to sleep. I want to stay awake and enjoy their experience. They bring out their fine dining, their little salt and pepper shakers, which are gorgeous. Their whole experience from beginning to end, I just felt taken care of in a way that I had never been really, I had never experienced on a flight before.

I think this was a little bit of a double edged sword. There was a part of me that was just loving every moment of it. then there was this kind of background piece that felt do I deserve to be sitting here? Do I deserve this? This is so nice. Is this too nice? Especially when I'm looking at my kids who are only four and seven, I'm these two little beings, they're getting to experience this crazy first-class experience.

There was definitely some old paradigms for me that thought about deserving and gratitude. there's other people in the world, and they never get an experience this. So there was a little bit of that. But I will say that I didn't let that part hold back my experience. I really allowed myself permission to just live in it and let it be a part of my trip knowing that I have worked really hard in my whole life to deserve this. this is not where gratitude comes from. Getting to be on a flight or not being a flight is not where my gratitude comes from. So I knew that I could model that to my kids too.

Devon: I love hearing that so much. I can relate to so much of what you talked about in that experience. I still experience a lot of the same things now even after being a couple years away from having taken my first first-class flight. But Priyanka, thank you so much for joining us today. I have to say if this is the trip that you booked when you were “points ignorant”, I cannot wait to see what kind of trips you're gonna be booking as you continue to learn more about points and all the different things that you can do with them.

Thank you so much for sharing your time, your wisdom, and your experience with us today. For those people who have loved hearing your story and want to learn more about you, tell us a little bit really quickly. How can people find you?

Dr. Priyanka: Absolutely. So before I even share that, I have to say that Devon, I'm so glad I got to come on here and share my experience. Seriously, just for the whole world to know, I'm so grateful for you and answering all of my questions. You were seriously so instrumental in this first. I just want to take a moment to recognize you and share that I am so grateful.

You heard about my arguments with my husband. I'm like I need to tell him how this makes sense. I just appreciate your passion for what you do and for really helping professional people live this part of their life that I don't think we knew was possible for us. So I just have to say that.

Me, I am a health and body coach for high achievers. So I help women lose weight without a calculator. specifically, I work with confident women who really want to feel more powerful at work and at home while losing weight with a lot more ease and joy. You can find me over at The Unstoppable Mom Brain basically anywhere on the internet. But I would say that a best first place to start is The Unstoppable Mom Brain Podcast, which is where I share strategies, tips, skills, tools, all of the fun things for the high achiever to feel better in her life.

Devon: Amazing everybody go check out Priyanka. Thank you so much for joining us here today. Have a fantastic day my friend. Bye.

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Point Me to First-class. If you want more tips on turning your expenses into travel, visit pointmetofirstclass.com to learn more. See you next week.