73. The Secret to Booking Your Dream Safari: Budget, Locations, and Luxury (If You Want It) with Dr. Niki Topp

Welcome to Point Me to First Class, the only show for employed professionals, entrepreneurs, and business owners who are looking to optimize their higher-than-average expenses to travel the world. I'm your host, Devon Gimbel, and I believe that your expenses are your greatest untapped asset if you know how to leverage them. Ready to dive into the world of credit card points and miles so you can travel more, travel better, and travel often? Let's get started.

Devon: Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Niki Topp. I'm so thrilled to have you here today. Thank you for joining me.

Niki: Well, thank you so much for having me. I've been listening for a very long time, and I'm very excited to be here, even though I'm a novice, I think, in the points redemption. I was saying I'm accumulating and learning what I can, and I'm so happy to be here to talk with you and to share what I know about safaris with you. 

Devon: Exactly. You said you might be a novice in terms of earning points right now or using points right now, but you are not a novice when it comes to the topic that I invited you to talk about today on the podcast, which is all about planning and taking safaris. Because I think this is one of those wish list items that so many people have at the top or near the top of their travel wish list in general is really wanting to be able to take a safari at some point. You have so much experience in this, and we're going to get into all of your words of wisdom, all of your tips for folks.

But first, I want to back up and talk about how it is that you actually gained so much experience in safaris. Because I understand that you're originally an OB-GYN from the United States, but now you live in South Africa. I'm really curious to hear what was behind that transition. How did you go from practicing medicine in the States to relocating to South Africa, and how long have you been there now? 

Niki: Yeah, so I sort of, I've been here now, well not sort of, I've been here for eight years coming up this July. I'm kind of an unexpected retired OB-GYN, like you said. I never intended to retire from my job, but sort of life happened, and here I am. But my husband is also a physician. So he's an infectious disease doctor, and he studies multidrug-resistant tuberculosis. So he, as part of his research and part of his fellowship, the plan was always to come to South Africa. 

We actually, it's interesting. We met as we were both in medical school together, but we were both the co-presidents of the Global Health Interest Group at our medical school. So we at that point weren't dating, but were friends, obviously, and both had common interests. So we both have been very passionate about global health and those things for kind of our whole careers. 

But what's interesting, of course, you match into a residency, and your ideas of oh, global health. I'm going to go out and save the world. No, no, no, you're going to be stuck in a hospital for 80 hours a week, and you'll get little slices of that maybe on your electives and stuff. But we've always been very interested in it. He actually even moved to South Africa, where we live now in 2008 to 2009 to get his research started before we applied for residency.

So we now live in Hilton, South Africa, which is a small town. It's about an hour and a half outside of Durban. So we're on the east coast of South Africa. So it's a beautiful place to live. It's pretty quiet and idyllic, I would say, compared to where we've lived previously. So it is a big change not only to go from the U.S. but we are living in larger cities to then moving to a sort of kind of more farming rural community. 

But we really love it. We moved here in July of 2016. My son was four months at the time. So he is a world traveler from the get-go. Yeah, so I started with the idea we'd be here for a year. So I was going to raise my son. I was studying to take my OB oral boards, which I all did in my first year. Well, my husband got another grant to continue his research, and the story continues. He ended up getting a K award, and so now we're eight years later here. 

My daughter was born in South Africa. She's now five. But interestingly, you don't get citizenship by being born here. So she actually considers herself more South African than American. When people ask her, she's like, no, no, no. I'm not American. I'm South African. I was born here. 

Even last year, the Rugby World Cup was like obviously a huge deal here, and the kids were all involved at school. She would get upset at people and say that they didn't love South Africa as much as she did because they didn't sing the Shakira Waka Waka song. I thought well, she's not South African either, but I love your persistence and attitude and support of the team. So yeah. 

So we ended up being here now for eight years, two kids. So we go back and forth to the U.S. fairly frequently. I don't go as much as my husband. He goes back to work. This year, it's 13 weeks a year. He still is on faculty in Connecticut. So he'll fly back there. Yeah, he does that, and we sort of make our lives work here. Then he's back working, and we really love it. So yeah, it's been a really interesting road. One that I didn't think was going to happen this way, but very happy that it has.

So it's now led into all these other opportunities in my life to do all this awesome travel that obviously is very Africa-based, mainly Southern Eastern Africa, that I probably would not have spent extensive time traveling. Even though I really loved it, because it was just so far away. So now I've been very lucky to be able to travel quite a bit here, and now turn it into yeah, sort of an opportunity to help other people travel here also and be a big promoter of people not only coming here themselves, but bringing family. Because it's actually a very family-friendly place as well.

Devon: Yeah, I want to hear all about that because I think that that's a question that a lot of folks have about if they're thinking of planning a trip to Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa, some of the areas that I think are kind of more typically known for safaris in particular. I think one of those big questions is, is this really more appropriate for adults? Is this a trip that is really family-friendly in terms of younger folks and older folks? We're going to get into all of that.

But one of the things that I'm really curious to hear from you is you mentioned being there now for eight years, which is a little bit unexpected is it opened up some new opportunities for you. I think one of those opportunities is that you now have somewhat recently, within the last year or so, actually started your own bespoke tour company. So I'm hoping that you can talk a little bit about that. What was it that made you decide to open up your own tour company? 

Niki: Yeah, no. I've been very lucky that I'm a big traveler, and being here that I've really seized the opportunity to go to a lot of places. So in preparation for today, I was thinking of how many safaris have I been on. I think I'm over 30 to 40 at this point, and 20 to 30 different destinations. Now some of those are within South Africa so it's not different countries, but within different areas of different countries.

Because I really, I hear something, I say oh, that sounds really nice. Or I see a lodge, I'm like oh, I want to go there. So I then sort of then gear our family travel to that. I'm the main travel planner in our family. My husband's usually along for the ride. So yeah, I've been able to get all of this experience.

So with that then I just like to share that with people. So I've shared it on different Facebook groups and different platforms, and people have been very curious about not only traveling with the family, but just sort of the different trips that I've taken. A lot of them, I'd say 95% of them, I planned myself. So from beginning to end and sort of inquiring about that.

So I had enough interest from people asking me oh, are you doing travel planning and things like that. I would spend a lot of time talking with people on Messenger, on different platforms of helping them sort of book their own trips. A lot of people suggest oh, you should do this. I thought I should, but it's a big undertaking. I'm a super type A person, and so everything has to be done by the book and by order.

So even though this was in my mind for a long time, it was hey, I have to actually get everything in order, and I want it all to be set before I actually start accepting taking clients. So it started, actually, it was interesting. When I was pregnant with my daughter is I had an interest in starting a travel company, and I actually even dipped my toe into it. There's another female physician that has a host agency.

So I talked with her, and I had started sort of planning. But then my daughter was born, she rocked my world. That wasn't happening. So I decided we're going to step back. So now that she's five years old. She was four when I started sort of planning this, in school. I was like I have time to actually put into this what I want from it and what I expect of it because I wouldn't want to do anything half-heartedly. I wouldn't want to do anything that wasn't yeah perfect. Though, obviously perfect is not attainable, but we can all try. 

So I ended up sort of doing all of the planning of it, trying to do it myself in the sense that it's a small business, thinking I'd like to learn this sort of from the ground up. Actually, interestingly enough, is that prior to this, the year before, I had started a non-profit organization. So it actually was the blueprint for me to be able to do this. 

It's obviously a little bit different, but incorporating businesses, getting business bank accounts, getting, obviously, I need a 501(c)(3) status for that, but all of these different things and then making a website. I actually was like I'm going to create my own websites to do this, and it's something I want to learn how to do. Now, obviously, I'm no web designer, so probably notable on my websites, but I love doing it. I learned how to make it and so then I can do all these things.

So I got myself to the point where I was like I want this to be exactly how I envision it because I don't really have a timeline. So what I ended up doing is giving enough time, and then sort of opening, quote unquote, my doors in August. Immediately, I was so lucky. I had so many people reach out to me. So I've been planning now lots of different trips for people and their families since that time. Then I've started also planning some group trips for female physicians, which are going to be super exciting as well. 

So it was one of those things that it sort of came to me as opposed to sort of me seeking something out. I wasn't necessarily looking to fill my time with this, but then I became very passionate about it. The more I talked about it people were like why are you not doing this? I thought I'm going to. So yeah, so that's how it all began.

But it's definitely very different being in business as opposed to being a doctor. You sort of think like oh, I'm done with med school. I'm done with residency. Obviously, I'm going to continue learning in that field. But then to think in my 40s, I'm going to take on a new task has been actually really invigorating, but it's also very overwhelming sometimes. Sometimes that's good to like challenge yourself. So I'm very happy I did it. 

Devon: Yeah. I can relate to a lot of that story, actually, but one of the things that I was really curious that I would love to hear from you is you mentioned that not only have you been on 30 to 40 safaris at this point and you said 20 to 30 destinations, is can you describe for us what is a typical safari experience like for people. What does that look like for people who are curious about what they can expect from a safari? Or is there actually such a thing as a typical safari experience? 

Niki: So yes and no. I think that there's definitely sort of an idea and what a lot of the lodges will emulate. But moving here, actually, it's very interesting because my idea of a safari, and I think what most people in the States, is the very cultivated experience of you either fly in a small plane, or you fly and they pick you up in an open vehicle, and they drive you around. You have three meals a day, your drinks, you have sundowners, you have morning coffee out in the bush. It’s this very elevated experience, which it is for a lot of the places. I love that, of course.

But then a lot of people here, I mean, that's not sustainable in terms of their budgets. South Africa right now the economy is low. The rand exchange rate to the dollar is quite favorable for Americans, but not necessarily for South Africans. So none of them could afford these types of safari, but they go on safari all the time. The way they do it, it's either camping or staying in, like, self-catering cottages, lodges, things like that.

So then that's obviously a very different experience than someone putting a hot water bottle in your bed every night, turn down service, and all of that. So the experience can be varied, you know. 

In general, I'd say most people that come to visit for a safari are going to get the former, sort of the more luxurious experience because you don't have to stay at a five-star safari lodge to have that experience because a lot of them are just so great with customer service, with client satisfaction, and things like that. That you can see that there's a difference in some of these. 

Obviously, there's pricing differences that are quite large, and I can get into some of that later, but that all of them at the heart just want people to see these beautiful animals, learn something, have a great time. Yeah, that's their main goal. So you can really do it as big or as little as you want to. But I do find it challenging as someone, I'm not personally someone that does a lot of camping and things like that. 

It's more common, I would say, outside of South Africa in terms of hiring people to do it. They do have it here, but very common in maybe Botswana to sort of hire your own vehicle that has a tent on top of it, and you drive around and do it on your own. Here, you definitely can do that, and there's tour companies that specialize in that to help you with the camping aspect of it, but it's sort of less of the sort of, I'd say, general person safari experience here. That tends to be more local people will have their own camping equipment and do that sort of thing.

But in general, yeah, you're looking at most safaris are going to include waking up quite early in the morning before the sun rises. The big reason that, especially in South Africa, we do that here is because the cats that you want to see, so lions, leopards, are going to be most busy that time of day. Once the sun comes out and it gets hot, they tend to sort of lay flat. They call them flat cats then.

Then you wait until the sun starts to go down, so you go for your afternoon safari. Then once the sun starts to go down, then they get up and are more active again. But it doesn't mean that you're, the rest of the animals are quite active then during the day but that's sort of the reason for the timing of it in South Africa and a lot of other places.

If you go to East Africa, like in Kenya and Tanzania, you'll go on safari all day because the animals tend to be more active there throughout the day. I've asked them, you always get different answers, but I've asked them why that difference is, and it's obviously not the temperature because it's quite hot there. They just say they're more acclimated to walking during the day and doing that. We did find it to be true, or we do when we go there, that you can go, and in the middle of the day there's just lions walking around and stuff.

So yeah. So it's exciting, and I think that all safaris, everyone has the goal of seeing the big five, which are the lion, the leopard, the elephant, the rhino, and then the cape buffalo. They get that title because they were the hardest animals to hunt on foot. So some people are like why is the cheetah not on there? It's like it's not a cute contest. It's not a fierceness contest. It's really when people were hunting them on foot back in the 1800s, early 1900s, that these were the animals that were most dangerous for you to encounter if you were on foot. So yeah. At this point, that's sort of people's goal, but there's so much more to see. 

I think that every time I go, I just get enthralled with something different in a different aspect of it. My kids obviously come on safari with us quite a bit, and they love different aspects of it as well. So my son loves vultures. He loves crocodiles. He loves jackals, which are these small little like sort of dog-like animals. My daughter loves giraffes. 

So it's like, it doesn't take much to make us happy to find things, and they also love dung beetles. So you're looking at piles of dung. We spent an hour, I think, when we were in December on safari just watching them roll their little balls. But it's so cool because you just are like oh, this is all happening around us, and we're not always there looking at or paying attention. 

In Africa, I think it's just, it's at a heightened level because nature and area is just so much more wild, and just the natural order of things is going on where there's very little human interaction, or that's the goal is very little human interaction. We just get to be visitors in their space. 

Devon: Yeah, and you kind of touched on this a little bit that obviously, there are many different countries where you can plan a safari type of experience. I think, like you said, most predominantly, we think about countries in East Africa, countries in the southern aspect of Africa, but what kind of tips or guidance do you have for someone when they're even just doing that initial kind of planning of how do you pick the general area that you want to go? Do you have any guidance for them based on certain areas of interest about oh well, maybe that would favor heading to one location over another? 

Niki: Yeah, so there's a few things that some people, it's sort of the ecosystem they want to be in. So East Africa tends to be open savannas. This is where you think about the Lion King. It's like you just look and the land stretches. You see the acacia trees. You see the animals in the distance. This is why hot air balloon safaris are so great there because you can just see the animals from below. So tend to be like a big high concentration of animals, or there's less sort of in their way. There's just open savannas. So some people really want to see that.  

Well, some people are more focused on the animals. One of the things that I always try to sort of suss out from people when planning is are they very intent on seeing a rhino or leopard? Because those are two of the most difficult animals to see. 

Unfortunately, the rhino, because of poaching and that in a lot of countries that are outside of South Africa, that they have sort of been almost hunted to extinction, poached to extinction. Then they're only seen sort of in little pockets in areas. So that it's very unlikely that you're going to see a rhino there. I know this is in Zimbabwe. This is true in Kenya. In the Maasai Mara, it tends to be true as well, though they do have some rhinos that are out and about. Like they tend to sort of be in a conservancy there just for their protection. 

South Africa tends to be better in terms of rhino sightings just because there's more of them here. We're trying to do what we can to protect them. It's very much on everyone's mind here. We actually, it was my daughter. It was a public holiday today, and they had a little event at her school, and they had the Protect the Rhinos organization there selling stuff. The kids were all putting their hand on this big rhino sculpture with paint. 

It's at the forefront of everyone's mind here because we do realize how important it is to save these animals, and that it really is and was a dire situation. I think it seems to be improving. It got bad during COVID. It's getting better. So that to me, I'm like, I know that there are places in South Africa if you want to see a rhino, if you stay there at least two or three days, you're going to see a rhino. 

Now, leopards are like the most difficult. So yeah, the most difficult. It's actually funny. That's why actually my company is called Wandering Leopard is because leopards are the most elusive of sort of obviously of the big five. You could argue about some of the other like nighttime cats, the nocturnal animals, but leopards are very hard to see.

The reason is that they are not the biggest animal in the food chain. So they have to be on alert all the time. So they, much like cheetahs as well, like they have to be constantly looking around. So a lion, whereas they kind of are like I can walk wherever I want because who's going to hurt me, a leopard has to be very careful. So they are very uncomfortable around people at baseline. So a leopard could be right next to you in a bush, and you would never know it. 

So that there are certain places, so specifically the Sabi Sands in South Africa, where they have worked really hard to get comfortable. They've spent a lot of time habituating is the word. It potentially could have a negative connotation, but it's not in the sense that it's not harmful for the animals because obviously us as humans personally don't pose a threat. You could argue with poaching and stuff, but that doesn't tend to be as much of a problem. But they tend to be really shy.

So Londolozi is one of the camps that started in 1926, I believe. Yeah, because they're up for their centennial. They had started this program, I think in the sixties and seventies. I was just talking with them about it where they just would spend time with the leopards. Then once the leopards become comfortable with you, then they have babies, their offspring, and they teach their offspring. These people are okay. Like they don't have to be worried of you. 

It's a crazy situation where I went on I think it was like 12 or 13 like different safari trips. So these are like three or four days safaris each and not a leopard to be seen. Like I was in Botswana. I was in Zimbabwe. I was everywhere. I'm like I've got to see a leopard, not once. So what I ended up doing is I took my son, and we flew up to the Sabi Sands because I was like I wanted to. Then it's so just overwhelming actually to see them just be in your presence. Because they're truly like the most gorgeous like animals. 

So that's the long and the short. Well, I guess not the short, but to get leopards. That if you are like, I want to see a leopard, go to the Sabi Sands. There's multiple different lodges there that you can stay different price points, but like that's where you're going to have the highest chance of seeing them. That's not to say you can go to any of these other places, and you probably will see them. 

Now, since then, I've seen them obviously multiple other places, but if you're kind of coming, and this is your chance to do it or your one opportunity, at least for this time, and it's something important to you, that would be the place to go. So I sort of tend to look at it with people. Okay. If you have specific animals you want to see. 

Then sometimes also just asking people what are your goals? Like people come to Africa saying I only want to see the bush because I can't get that at home. Then some people saying, I'd love to spend time in Cape Town because I've heard it's a really amazing city, which it is. Or I'd love to do like the Garden Route and do that on the Southern tip of South Africa and drive that or take a tour there. So you really can kind of find different things for different people that's not all safari.

I think I get very passionate about when people say I want to go to Africa, and it's like well, Africa is humongous. Africa is not a monolith. Like there's so many different places. I tend to sort of, in my mind, think of it, and for my business, I only work in Eastern and Southern Africa because I just don't have experience in other places. But almost all of the sub-Saharan African countries have wildlife tourism as part of their portfolio of things that they want people to come visit them for. 

I think that there's a lot of unchartered places that less people go to visit, but that it's popular everywhere. So there really is like such a span of places you can go and all sort of offering different things. Then even bringing like Kilimanjaro for someone that wants to hike and do that. You know, there's so many different things you can sort of add to it. Or you want to go to the beach. Do you want to go to Zanzibar? Because we all as a zygomatic nerve, everyone's like to Zanzibar by motor car. You're like okay. So it's like, we all as medical, at least in my world, medical people, all sort of like think of those things. Maybe it's the facial nerve. I don't remember now. 

But there's just so much to offer. There's so much variability that's so outside of just the safari, but there are people that want to do that because it's definitely something they can't get at home in the U. S. So, yeah. It's sort of starting there and sort of then teasing out where people want to go. 

Then I think budget also has a huge part of where people, you can sort of direct them where to go. Tanzania in the middle of the migration is going to be expensive. There's no way around it. It's going to be probably the most that anyone's paid for a trip maybe short of Antarctica or something it's expensive, and it's just how it is. Then the Okavango Delta in Botswana is just expensive, and there's really no way around it. The only way really around that actually is to camp. There's quite a few camping companies that do that, but then it's a very different experience than the lodges that take very good care of you.

So yeah, there's always like sort of trade-offs for it. I think that you can always try your best to fit exactly what people want, and you can get very close to it, but there's sort of give and take for certain places and where you want to travel and then what's in your budget and what's in time. 

It's not easy to get around Africa. So that's another thing that you have to consider that it's not like the U.S. that you could bop between cities within a day. A lot of times you have to position yourself the day before to take a flight to then position yourself that night to then get to the next place. So you really have to bop around quite a bit. It's doable, but it does take time. So. 

Devon: Yeah. Talking about time. You had mentioned too speaking before that if there was a particular animal that you were really interested in seeing that you may need to stay kind of in the same place or in the same sort of lodge or reserve area for two to three days to reliably be able to potentially have a sighting of that animal. 

Taking into consideration, especially if someone does want to add on sort of multiple elements of a trip, like you mentioned a traditional safari and being able to potentially go to Zanzibar, or a traditional safari and spending some time in one of the more urban cities and really being able to have that experience. How do you recommend that people think about planning their time when it comes to safari, both in terms of what do you think is a, quote unquote, good or adequate amount of time to dedicate for the actual safari experience? 

Then beyond that, how do people also allocate or think about time in terms of the travel that it takes to get there if they are coming, let's say, from the United States and wanting to do an experience in additional to the actual safari experience? 

Niki: Yeah, so it can be hard with timing because obviously to get here is usually a day and then to get home is a day. So most people say I have two weeks. So there you're already down to 12 days. So a lot of times you're going to obviously going to be flying into a major city. So most places in Africa, you're going to fly into Nairobi, Dar es Salaam, Arusha, Joburg, Cape Town, all these places. Most of the time you're getting in sort of afternoon/night. There's no connection that you can make that day. That's very unlikely. Like the only way that you can get a connection is like if you fly to Johannesburg, and you want to get to Cape Town, like you can get there. 

So it's sort of then you get there and then that's a night that you're then stuck at that city, and you're tired, you're worn out, you're going to be jet lagged. So then you sort of then realize like the time starts to sort of tick away in terms of how much available time you have. 

I personally, in terms of if I have clients that are coming, and they want to spend time in a city like Cape Town or Nairobi, I'll usually say why don't we plan that at the beginning? Because once you're on safari, you can do whatever you want obviously. But like to get what you want from the experiences, you're going to be wanting to get up to do the game drives, which are really early. So depending on the time of 5:00, 5:30, 6:00. 

If you're coming straight from a different time zone, many time zones away, it's going to be very difficult to jump right into that. So if you can sort of cushion yourself with a city because especially Cape Town is a city that's just vibrant and is a huge city. So if you want to sleep in until noon and then go out, like you could then go out from 12 to midnight. You have those opportunities.

Whereas if you're either in the bush, you're sort of then sort of looking around, and you're awake and you're thinking yeah, I really wish I could be asleep. Or if you're in another city, that's either less safe or is a little bit smaller than you would sort of be limited by that.

So I generally tend to tell people if you're going to start, I would fly into a city for at least a couple of nights, get yourself re-acclimated, all of those things. If you're not going to then just sort of the understanding is it's going to be a little bit difficult to sort of get your yourself going, but you can. 

So I generally recommend, I personally found the sweet spot for me is four nights at a safari. Now that's all predicated on the fact that I have two small children. So that when we go, the idea is that they love doing safaris, but they also love a pool just as much as a safari. So you have to have that downtime when you're traveling with them, which only comes on the days that you're not traveling.

So if you're trying to hop between a lot of places, you're never going to really get that downtime that I think that my kids need, but it has actually now become one of my needs. I've found now with small children, I've really taken on oh well, they can't do that much. I'm like, yes. I'm glad like. Using them as an excuse and thinking why have we not traveled like this before? Like, there's no reason you have to like push yourself so much. So I find that they do really well when we can have three, at least three, if not four days, four nights, probably yeah, at a location because then they can get settled in. 

Now, if you have older children, or your children are more resilient then maybe you could bop around a little bit more, and you could see more places. But like I said, it's very difficult in Africa, Southern Africa, and I'm sure in Western and the Northern parts of Africa as well. There's not all these flights that are connecting places. 

So you really have to be mindful of that most of the flights that go from a lot of the safari locations are planned specifically for tourist schedules. So if you want to catch a flight from Victoria Falls to Kruger, there's usually one flight a day. It's leaving at 10:30, and it's landing at like 12:30. That allows people to get to Kruger to get to their safari destination to make their afternoon safaris. I'm talking about the commercial flights. 

Now, there's, of course, always like smaller charter flights you can book too, but those get pretty expensive, but that all of it sort of planned around that. But it's not that you have a lot of sort of options in terms of where and when you can fly. So you're sort of thinking it has to be very mindful of this day, we have to leave by this time, which means we might miss our morning safari. 

So I'm always very cognizant of, for guests, because you're paying for that. That's what a part of this sometimes exorbitant price that you're paying is that you're paying for that experience to have that safari. So if you're just missing it, to me, I'm like, that's only acceptable if it's the only option so and that clients are aware of that or people are aware of that. So I think that you just have to sort of keep your eye on that. 

Then there are places that are quite easy to travel between. So one of like the really awesome places that is less, I think Victoria Falls is quite visited, but on either side of Victoria Falls that there's within driving distance to amazing safari locations. So Victoria Falls itself has the Zambezi National Park, which is a big four park. It doesn't have rhino, but you can go there. It's right next to Victoria Falls. I mean, it's crazy. It's right there. If you stay at certain lodges that you can stay and do game drives there. 

Well, if you drive an hour and a half west, you go to through Botswana, and you get to a place called Chobe. Chobe is in Botswana, and it's very known and very popular for its elephants. So it's the largest density of elephants of anywhere in the world, like just everywhere. So it's a different type of safari because you do not only, it's a lot of sand, but you do a lot of game drives in vehicles, but you also do them on the river.

Which is an interesting thing especially when you see a herd of 50 elephants coming down to drink. You're on the river. The little elephants, the babies are like spraying each other with water. It's truly like amazing to see this from this angle because a lot of times you're seeing it from a safari vehicle. So that's super close by that you wouldn't need to have this long flight. It's not an expensive transfer, but you could just drive, and it would work.

Then on the other side if you go east is Hwange Park in Zimbabwe. It’s a little bit further to get there by road. It's a couple of hours. But the interesting part is that when you go there, it's basically doing a game drive the whole time. Because Hwange is a less visited, a less well known park, but it's got amazing animals there. 

So once you sort of leave and get into the park area, you're basically doing a game drive for like three hours of your four or five hour commute to get to your lodges, which then sort of adds to the experience. So I think there's these super great opportunities in those places to get sort of a breadth of different experiences when you're there and then visit Victoria Falls too while you're at it. So.

Devon: Yeah, I can honestly understand why you have been on 30 to 40 different safaris when there is such a diversity of just experiences that are available for people to experience. One of the things that you and I were kind of chatting about offline before we started this conversation was that when I'm thinking from the travel perspective of points, in my mind, everything is either a points redeeming opportunity or a points earning opportunity. 

When we're thinking about this type of trip involving a safari, there are some safari lodges or game reserves where you can actually use points to book your stay there. But that is very, very few and far between. I actually think the utility of points for so many folks looking to take a vacation that involves some component of safari is actually being able to use points for the flights to get, again, if you're based in the U.S. to get from the U.S. all the way over to Cape Town or Johannesburg or Nairobi, like you mentioned. 

But then beyond that, even if you can use points to defray some or all the cost of your actual flights, and then you can allocate your budget to actually then investing in your actual safari experience. You have kind of alluded to the fact that some safaris can be incredibly expensive. 

I have the idea that you could probably spend as much money as you wanted to and have any kind of safari experience, but that's not necessarily mandatory. That it sounds like there's actually a range of experiences that are available or a range of budgets that can actually accommodate having a safari type of trip. 

So I was wondering if you could just speak a little bit about when you are helping people to make plans for this type of a trip, is there a minimum budget that you think people should plan for when they're considering a safari? Or can you just give us an idea about different budgets and what those may actually end up being able to get you in terms of different safari experiences? 

Niki: Yeah, so it's such a huge range of like prices. So just to sort of go through, I've sort of prepared like some of the stuff. So what brings the cost up of a place is because I think some people see it and are like, and I said the word exorbitant, which in my mind is like because it's just so much more than you'd ever think to spend for one night at a hotel in theory, even though it's obviously much more than that. But you see the value once you start to go to these places.

So the biggest thing is going to be location. So I had mentioned before, if you want to go to Tanzania and the migration, right now, number one, it's nearly impossible to get any availability. You have to usually book it at least one, if not two years, in advance to get all of the places you want to go. 

But what I'm finding now is that you end up spending, I'll go through sort of like the two options of safaris when you go there. But if you're going to be staying at the sort of nicer lodges that you're going to be end up paying at least $1,800 to $2,000 per person per night. 

So that's a lot when you start to think about per person per night, and that's not including the flights that you're going to take between places, the flights to get there. The good thing about these places is that all of the stuff is included once you get there. So in terms of food, drinks, all of that stuff, laundry, tips are not included. So that is something you need to budget for.

So when you're looking at those types of trips, if you're talking about a family of like four people that want to do Tanzania and the migration, you're looking at anywhere from $60,000 to $70,000. I mean, it's high. It's very high. You can do that for less. 

So one of the ways that you can save money in Eastern Africa, specifically Kenya, Tanzania, is that they have what's called overlanding trips. So those are the trips you see where people are telling you, “Oh, I only spent $3,000, $4,000 per person for this whole trip.”

The reason that those are less expensive is that they pick you up in the airport, in the safari vehicle. It's a closed vehicle, but the windows open. It has like a top that opens. What they do is your driver basically is your sort of driver and your game ranger for the whole trip, and they drive you place to place. You tend to stay in places that are, the accommodations are a little less in terms of sort of the luxury of it, but also that you are doing your game drives with this person. 

So what that means is a lot of the cost that comes with safari is running these huge land cruisers and range rovers, whatever that sort of vehicle they use, and they take you on these drives. Instead, you're sort of, you have a base camp that you go to. They probably provide food, but then your driver's going to take you there. So those tend to also be the trips where you're moving around a lot because they'll tend to sort of go from one location to the next location. That's where you'll hear people say, “I went in 10 days. I saw all these different places”. And that's because they're moving around quite a bit. 

I have personally never done these trips because of kids because my kids would not tolerate that sort of trip. But it's a really great option for people that are trying to be more budget conscious. 

So then, in theory, you could probably do that same trip, obviously staying at different places, but seeing the same things for anywhere for a family of four, between $12,000 to like $20,000. So it definitely can bring the price down. 

It's the same in Kenya where you can do overlanding trips, or they call them like wing safaris, which means that you're flying between places. So it really can make a difference sort of the location you're going. 

That also being said, in South Africa specifically, if you're thinking, there are public parks, public reserves, like Kruger National Park is a public park. So people can camp in there. You can drive your own vehicles in there. So it's funny. You'll see people in their little hatchbacks driving. It's all paved roads. You can't go off the roads. But it's a really, and this is the way that a lot of South Africans grew up traveling as they go to Kruger Park and stay there and camp there.

So doing a trip like that, there are hotels and lodges that around the park that you can stay and then drive in during the day. You can do those probably for a similar probably like $10,000 to $15,000 for a family of four, sort of all included with that. So you definitely can do it at a lower price. 

But then the benefits of staying at these other places. So why do you spend more when you go to the Sabi Sands? Well, because of the location, because of the leopards, but also because what it is, is it's a private reserve. I haven't talked about that yet. 

But so all of these countries have national parks. So in Kenya, Maasai Mara is a national park. In Tanzania, it's Serengeti is a national park. What that means is that it's run by the government, and they have control of the park. Generally, what it means is that you're driving on the roads. There's paved roads. You can't really off road to see animals. So if there's one far in the distance, you can't get off the road to see them, which can be a bit disappointing if they're far away.

The other thing is, is that they don't control the number of cars they're at. There's cars jockeying for position. There's like 10 or 15 of them that's at these places because there's not really a control. I know that the Maasai Mara tries to control it sometimes but yeah. So the benefits are that if you're at a private reserve, only the people that are staying at this reserve can go and visit the sightings for these animals. 

So the specific ones that surround Kruger, the Sabi Sands, there's the Timbavati, all these different places, that you stay in a lodge there, you just get to go with the people in your car and go see these sightings and people aren't coming. Generally, they're not overcrowded. So you're not going to be kicked out of a sighting.

So at a lot of these places, they'll only let two or three safari vehicles at a time. So if say you found the lion that morning. If you found it, but then you need to be kicked out of it because another car wants to come, that tends to not happen as much at these private reserves because they tend to be a little more exclusive, which then comes with the price tag. 

So then there's just a whole host of other things that sort of play into the price of the quality of the food. Like some of them have butler service, some of them have laundry service, some include alcoholic drinks, some don't. So all of those types of things. Then time of year is a huge factor. If you're going the migration, you're paying highest rates. If you're going during the green season, which is the rainy season, or the shoulder season, which sort of can be iffy, you're paying less. A lot of times it's half the price. 

So those are ways that you can sort of save money on these places. So if you're thinking oh, I'd love to go to Tanzania and do it like in a really nice way but I don't have that budget, a way to do it would be okay, well look and see when's the best season that has the reduced rates and then kind of go from there and plan it. So you can do that. 

But the big thing that I personally because I'm now an amateur photographer. I won't ever claim otherwise. I'm like not going to take anything for National Geographic, but a big thing that is important about the sort of nicer safari lodges is they limit it to six people in the vehicle, which means that every single person is on the edge. So usually there's three rows of three seats, or there's three rows, and then there's like a cooler or something in the middle. 

So each person has the chance to see. If an animal is walking right next to your vehicle that each person has that possibility and opportunity as opposed to if you're sort of stuck in the middle. Photography, it's quite difficult as well if you're stuck in the middle to take a shot without someone else being in it. So a lot of these nicer places will limit it to six people.

When you get to the places where it's a little less expensive, it's nine or 10 people. So they're literally fitting all the seats and then putting someone next to the driver. That's just the nature of it. So not that not that any of these things are good or bad, but it's just that's the sort of difference that you're seeing for why that there's these price differences in these places. 

But I'd say that you can definitely, I mean you could do a safari for very little, but like to do a nice safari for a family, depending on which location in South Africa, you could definitely do it for like around $10,000. But like you said, it's almost limitless as to what you could add because there's always just like something else you could add on to it. Like oh, I want a private vehicle, or I want this, or I want that. It's like okay. It really can bump up in price. So it's just really about what you want to spend. 

But I do think that there is definitely some value in the more you spend. It's not that it's just oh, a name or something. It's there is appreciable differences, but it might not be important for other people if you're not a person that worries about, if you're not. If you don't care about like the food and stuff like that, not that the other food is bad, but it's a plated meal versus like a buffet. It's all these little things. So it doesn't have to be a budget busting thing.

I always say I want to plan trips for people that they can afford to come back because I know they're going to want to come back once they visit. So I don't want to leave people like either stretching their budget where they're uncomfortable, or yeah them feeling like this is how you have to do it if you come because it's your one chance. It doesn't have to be your one chance, especially with getting with points redemptions potentially for flights. There's a whole continent to see. It's so different. There's so many places to visit. It doesn't have to be a one-time shot. You can plan to come back many times. 

Devon: Yeah, I love hearing your perspective on that. Really the importance, again, before someone even starts doing some of the more logistic planning of where do I want to go? When do I want to go? What do I want those days to look like? To first just get really clear about what is it that you want to get out of that experience? 

Because like you said, there are so many different ways that you can craft a trip like this. The things that matter to one person may not be the things that matter to another. There's really no need to go ahead and invest money in an aspect of an experience that maybe just isn't quite as important for you as another aspect of the experience. So I think those are really good things to keep in mind. 

One of the things that you had mentioned before was specific for folks who, I think your example was if you really want to be in the Maasai Mara during the Great Migration, that's a trip that you want to have started planning one to two years in advance. That really struck me because I'm a planner. So I plan all my trips most of the time one year in advance. 

But the idea that even for some of these experiences that you may want to plan even farther out from there, I could see it being potentially a mistake for someone to decide that they want to take this type of vacation and say in January one year reach out to a tour operator saying hey, I'd love to come in June or July for this type of trip. It being almost two later a mistake at that point.

I'm curious just with your experience now of having worked with so many different folks and having planned so many of these trips for yourself and your family, are there any other types of mistakes that you see people make when it comes to planning a trip around safari that you can help warn us about so that we don't make those same mistakes if this type of trip is on our wish list as well? 

Niki: Yeah, no. I think that in general, I think that if you're a savvy traveler, you can sort of figure that out. But the big thing is the timing of it I think can be difficult. Then, like I said, that a lot of people, especially if you want to self-plan it, underestimate the amount of time you need to position yourself because there aren't all of these flights.

So I had someone reach out to me a while ago that I think had like two weeks or something. They were going to try to do I think Rwanda, Kenya, South Africa, all these, Victoria Falls, all this stuff. I was like there's just absolutely no way. Even if you did the bare minimum at each of these places, like you would just be positioning yourself to fly every day. 

So that a lot of it is yeah, just sort of like recognizing that it's different than the U.S., and a lot of the commercial flights are based around tourism schedules. So that it dictates a lot of what's happening in terms of the flight schedules. So it definitely can make a difference with that. 

I think the other thing is that I think that some people, and I'm all for, like I've always planned all of our trips, which is why I got into this. So I don't think it's a bad thing for people to try to plan their own trips in Southern Africa. Specifically, like South Africa, I think it's relatively doable. If you were like I know where I want to go. I know all of these things. It's like planning anywhere else.

Where it gets very logistically difficult is when you get into Eastern Africa and Tanzania and Kenya where there's just the infrastructure that exists for these types of trips is solely through the tour operators that are there. So that there's not really a way around that. There's not really commercial flights between camps that you can get. So at some point, you're going to need to find those people. 

Well, it's very hard to find the person that flies between X airstrip and that airstrip on your own. So at some point, I still, at this point rely very heavily on having people help me with the flights and all of those things. Like I’ll book clients for Tanzania and Kenya because I'm very comfortable there with the lodges, all of those places, and traveling there, but I still have to reach out to someone with the flights to specifically help me get them from place to place.

So I tend to tell people if it's something you want to book on your own, you definitely can try it. You can do that. I don't think it's impossible, but things do run on a different sort of pace here as well. Like today was a public holiday. So emails I sent on Friday, so this is a Wednesday today, emails I sent on Friday, I think have been pushed because the public holiday was today. That things just move slower. It's difficult for me as a very like let's get answers quickly, but that's the way it is.

I think talking to people that I've helped sort of book their own trips and stuff like that, that it sort of can throw them for a loop a little bit. Like oh, they didn't get my email. It's like it's possible they didn't, but it's also possible that that's just their workflow hasn't sort of caught up to that. So I think that it's being sort of extra patient when you're here and dealing with, because it is very different in terms of, and it's not a different work ethic per se. It's just that it's a different time frame that people do things. So I think that's one of the biggest things. 

Then in terms of any mistakes and things like that, I think in general people, I think one of the things that I found and what actually sort of pushed me to do this, and this isn't to plug myself because I'm quite busy as it is. But I found that American travel agents or tour operators just don't know this area. Even if they've been here, maybe on a trip once or twice, like they just don't know this area. 

I actually fell prey to this. This is one of the reasons that I thought really was like I need to do this myself is that when my son was 18 months, and we decided, my mother-in-law and her sister were coming. We wanted to go to Victoria Falls, and we wanted to go to Chobe. So we're like okay, we're going to plan this trip. This is going to be great.

So I reached out. Living here, I didn't know anyone that was a travel agent here. So I thought I'm going to reach out to someone that's a well reputable place in the States. The crazy answers that I got that now I've come to be like this is completely untrue and the things that you see is also like sort of talked about on some of the forums and stuff like that are just completely untrue. 

So I think that one of the mistakes people make is sort of thinking, or just taking these things at face value when people say them, for people that either have been but have had a limited experience and the experience they had, or people that just don't have that experience. Either if it's a travel agent, a tour agent, that they're trying to book you to do these things. 

One of the biggest misconceptions that we've always had is with traveling with children on safari. Which in the United States, it was literally like the line was children, no, no, no. Children can't go on safari, which is completely untrue. I'll tell you that. 

But we ended up booking with this guy. They're based out of San Francisco, actually. I think he said, “Oh yeah, I've been to Africa before.” We ended up having a really lovely trip, but we stayed at these two lodges that were just not the lodges we would have stayed at. It was because he said, “These are the only two places that will allow your child to be there.” Which after going there now multiple times to both Victoria Falls and Chobe, it's completely untrue. But they just don't know what they don't know sometimes. 

So I think that they sort of that's what they hear. They hear some lodges have, a lot of lodges do have an age restriction potentially, but they sort of like, it's sort of missed. So I think that for me, that that always is the biggest sort of misinformation that I see people get and then act on it and say, no, no, no, that's not true. You definitely can make this a family trip. You don't have to. Obviously it's a great place for couples or individual travelers to come, but to see the sort of misinformation about families and where they fit into the tourism landscape here is just a lot of times misinformed.

Because there are, like I said, people grow up here and go to Kruger all the time. Like it's a rite of passage as a kid here. You go on a, most people do a car trip, but they do a car trip up to Kruger, travel around with their family, and do all of that. There's not, the stuff I've heard about if lions hear a kid, they'll come and try to eat. Like all the crazy stuff. Or they'll like get agitated and all this stuff. Quite honestly, it's really not true. People, I think, perpetuate that sometimes because they've gone one place, and they didn't allow children. That's sort of like the story that's told. So that's what gets me a lot of times.

But I'm hoping, like that's what I'm trying to dispel this myth by posting my children of all ages going on these safaris and that you can do it. It's just like there can be limitations to it. So that's the thing you have to sort of work around. 

Devon: Yeah. It's so helpful to keep that in mind. Thank you for touching on some of those things. There are literally so, so many other questions that I'm dying to ask you just because I want to know more about that. But I also want to be very respectful of your time. 

Niki: Yeah.

Devon: So we are going to conclude this conversation. I have a feeling we'll have you back as long, as you're willing.

Niki: Oh, I’d love to.

Devon: For another conversation sometime, maybe more specifically, even about different game reserves that you can recommend or very specific types of safari experiences for people to hear more about who maybe are not familiar with the fact that there are, like you said, dozens and dozens of different places and different types of experiences you could have. But before we wrap up today, I was just curious if there is anything that we haven't touched on yet that you think is really important for folks to know who are really interested in planning a safari experience. 

Niki: Yeah, I think it's just like you had touched on before. I think it's planning ahead of time. You can definitely try to do it last minute, but what ends up happening is that there's limitations and availability. So either you're not able to go to the places that you want or per chance like the thing that you would have been able to do in a certain budget is now not available. So then you have to like sort of make sort of concessions about it.

So I think that that's one of the things that is important is to, if you're even thinking about it, just at least start doing research and stuff to see. Then for the highly desired places at highly desired times, then booking does happen earlier.

 But I also want to leave people with the hope, you definitely can plan these sorts of trips on your own. There are ways to do it with points in the sense in all of the big cities, there are partners of Marriott, there's partners of Hyatt, and all these things. They may be fewer and far between compared to the States, but you can try to do that. You can sort of utilize points in that.

Sort of touched on the one sort of option for safari is the JW Marriott, which is not really a viable option at this point because there's just no availability there for points redemptions. But the things might be opening up if it's successful, which, unfortunately, I don't think it has been so much, but that it could open up the possibilities for other places to do this because there's like a Four Seasons in the Serengeti. 

So things are always changing, and they're always opening new lodges. There's always new things sort of happening. Especially in nature, things are shifting too. So there's certain places you might want to see, like there's white lions that live in Kruger, and there's one reserve that you can sort of go to see them. There's just small things like that, but they're lions. Their territory changes. So there's all these different things. 

So even though you can try to plan ahead, things are always shifting in our dynamic. It's just the fun of planning it is really part of it as well is that it's such a different sort of, I think, planning experience that most of us have done ourselves. So I personally am happy to help people because it can be very overwhelming because the names of lodges, the names of places, where are these places? Are they a good place? There's a lot. So that I'm always happy. 

I'm always happy to answer people's questions as well. But also I do, do free consultations with people to talk about what they want. It doesn't have to be that you're planning to even book with me. It might just be a fact finding mission in terms of where would I even want to go and those sorts of things. I clearly can tell love to talk about this. So I will chat people's ears off for hours about it because I really just want people to see this area as like a very viable. It doesn't have to be a once in a lifetime option. It can be a place you visit over and over again. It's a place you can bring your families. Yeah. 

Hopefully next time, I'd love to talk more about the family aspect of safaris because I think that's a whole different, it can be a different ballgame in terms of how you plan, when you plan it with your kids, all of those different things. But yeah, there's so many different aspects to it that yeah, it's just an exciting thing to do. It's always changing, like I said. So you just always have to keep your eyes open. 

But yeah, I'm always happy to chat with people. I'm always happy to recommend. Like I said, I tend to book people like in East Africa at the lodges. I don't find it necessary to interpolate myself in the overlanding trips. Like I generally will say talk to someone directly on the ground if that's the type of trip you want to do because really, there's no reason for me to be the middleman in this. I don't want to take money from anyone because I don't need to do that. 

So that I'll generally sort of direct people that way for those, but I'm always happy to talk to people about it. They can pick my brain about what I know. Yeah, I'm always happy to learn from people too if they've had a different experience. Because, like I said, a lot of this is based on my own personal experience as a traveler and now as the other side of it of planning for people, but yeah, things are always changing. So you never know. 

Devon: Well, Niki, thank you so much for letting me pick your brain about how to think about planning a safari. This has been such a wonderful conversation. I really hope that everybody who's interested in this type of trip is going to be able to take multiple things away from this conversation. I am really looking forward to having you back. We should absolutely talk specifically about the family aspect of safari travel planning. So we'll make a plan for that for the future. 

But in the meantime, for folks who do want to learn a little bit more about you, or set up a time to chat with you, if they have questions about planning this type of trip, where is a good place for people to find you? 

Niki: So the best place to find me is at my website. It's www.wanderingleopard.com. So W-A-N-D-E-R. I've had a few people do wondering, and I was like also cute, but no. Wandering, W-A-N-D-E-R-I-N-G, leopard, L-E-O-P-A-R-D.com. It has contact information. It has you can book appointment to have a consultation with me at your own convenience. Yeah, so it's a really great place. 

I'm also on the group a lot as well sharing what little knowledge I have, but trying to be like oh I learned that about Chase yesterday. So I'm going to put my little two cents in. So yeah, so I'm always, I'm around and quite easy to find, and I'm always happy to chat with people. So, yeah. 

Devon: Thank you so much for joining me here today. Again, I appreciate it so much, and I'm really looking forward to future conversations. 

Niki: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. 

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of Point Me to First Class. If you want more tips on turning your expenses into travel, visit pointmetofirstclass.com to learn more. See you next week.